Filed under: Pet Bird Toys
Question:
Many bird toys are made with leather and leather strips. I assume that these are safe. I would like to make more toys, but need a source for safe leather. There is one local store that specializes in leatherwork as a hobby. You can get tanned leather (looks like the stuff toys are made out of) in many shapes and sizes. Is regular tanned leather (not dyed or colored or painted), the tan colored type, safe for birds? or do you need special leather? How about the small "leather" chew treats for dogs. Are these safe for birds???? Visit my small set of webpages at: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/f/r/fredpb/index.html Some nature photos there, and pictures and text about my pet birds: cockatiels and a Green Cheeked Conure. Always making additions! Fred
Response:
Fred, may I recommend vegetable tanned leather "if" tanned leather is what you want to use. I use it with no side effects to my birds. I buy those wiffle balls and lace the holes one side to the other, add a bead or two and knot the ends. Put them all over to resemble a funny looking spider thingy, then from top to bottom I add a fastening device and a bell to the bottom. Hang and watch the action! My kids, I mean Birds love ‘em — Leslie Hill Home Page: http://members.home.net/ljh88 eBay auction page: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/kendles/
Response:
> Many bird toys are made with leather and leather strips. I assume > that these are safe. > I would like to make more toys, but need a source for safe leather.
I buy my "safe" vegetable tanned leather from bird fairs. There are frequently booths with toy parts so you can make your own toys. Do you have bird fairs near you? Janet Levy
Response:
> I buy my "safe" vegetable tanned leather from bird fairs.
Tex has several toys made of leather that I alternate in and out. I don’t think he likes them as much cause they are a little harder to destroy than the wood ones. Never thought about tanning material being unsafe but I could see that it might be.
Response:
August 9, 2000
Question:
I have a six month old cockatiel who has recently bonded to me. He loves to ride around on my sholder and my head, and he chatters with me. Last night he started a strange behavior. He was sitting on my hand, and he started to wag his rear end back and forth rapidly and deliberately, as if he was trying to wipe something with his tail. He would have done it for who knows how long if I hadn’t have put him up. Tonight he repeated the same behavior. My partner thinks that the bird is trying to mate with me. Has anyone seen this behavior before? Thanks, Jimmy
Response:
Partner is right, enjoy. Bob W-VBG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have a six month old cockatiel who has recently bonded to me. He >loves to ride around on my sholder and my head, and he chatters with >me. Last night he started a strange behavior. He was sitting on my >hand, and he started to wag his rear end back and forth rapidly and >deliberately, as if he was trying to wipe something with his tail. He >would have done it for who knows how long if I hadn’t have put him up. >Tonight he repeated the same behavior. >My partner thinks that the bird is trying to mate with me. Has anyone >seen this behavior before? >Thanks, >Jimmy
Response:
Self gratification, cockatiel-style! <g> Some like toys, some like bells, some like perches, other like hands, shoes, feet, etc. etc. etc… Marco ~~~~~ -"Girls, we’ve come to face that age-old dilemma… Style Vs. Substance." Miss Vida Boheme Pet Birds http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62680 PSP Graphics Page www.geocities.com/marcosartgallery
Response:
lol… congrats, he likes you, he really, really -really- likes you 
-Melanie (ain’t love grand?)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a six month old cockatiel who has recently bonded to me. He > loves to ride around on my sholder and my head, and he chatters with > me. Last night he started a strange behavior. He was sitting on my > hand, and he started to wag his rear end back and forth rapidly and > deliberately, as if he was trying to wipe something with his tail. He > would have done it for who knows how long if I hadn’t have put him up. > Tonight he repeated the same behavior. > My partner thinks that the bird is trying to mate with me. Has anyone > seen this behavior before? > Thanks, > Jimmy
Response:
> My partner thinks that the bird is trying to mate with me. Has anyone > seen this behavior before?
I don’t know it but one tip, don’t try to mate back.
Response:
Maybe you could tie one of those Swiffers to his butt and let him do the dusting. — Randal – Homo sapiens Birdzilla – violet pied LB and Dharma-Xena – avian warrior, Moustached Parakeet. "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. " – Albert Einstein Mail domain is pobox
Response:
My quaker had a thing going with his bell for the longest time but the little goof braided it into his nest and now I don’t know what he does for entertainment. He might still use the bell, but you can no longer hear the tell-tale ding-ding-ding that used to go with it. > Self gratification, cockatiel-style! > <g> > Some like toys, some like bells, some like perches, other like hands, > shoes, feet, etc. etc. etc… > Marco > ~~~~~ > -"Girls, we’ve come to face that age-old dilemma… Style Vs. Substance." > Miss Vida Boheme > Pet Birds > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62680 > PSP Graphics Page > www.geocities.com/marcosartgallery
– Kellie Final Portrait * A Novel by Kellie Sisson Snider Kass Arts Publicity <http://kassarts.bizland.com>
Response:
April 3, 2000
Question:
Marc Marrone is not a vet he owns a pet shop. He does know a lot about animals though ad has had his (and still does) in the NYC area for a few years.
Response:
I also enjoy the pets segment on Martha Stewart’s show. A few posters here do not seem to like her, but I find her to be a genuine animal lover; and the animals’ spontaneous acts always crack me up. Not knowing a lot about her private life and scandals(? if any) that prompted some negative sentiments, I kind of enjoy her calm demeaner and variety of show topics. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Oh okay…I miss cable, I live in the sticks, so we don’t get it. At one > time we had wireless satelite thing a ma giggy, but it was $60 a month for > 18 channels, so we gave that up…thats almost six new bird toys a month!! > Anyway, I would like to see those animal episodes, maybe one day <sigh> > >Martha features a guest veterinarian, by the name of Dr. Marc Marrone > >(sp?), on her show regularly. He discusses pets and pet care … birds, > >dogs, cats, reptiles, etc, and quite often talks about exotic pets. He > >usually brings along his pet birds and those are the ones you see perched > >on his and Martha’s shoulders. > Ditto! > She wan’t giving out advice, quite the contrary. Martha was a little > timid about picking up the containers of Lizards, and she is pretty > "stiff" with that cockatoo on her shoulder. > She was just doing what the guy told her to do & helping out. She did > not give one ounce of advise. > >Martha herself is a great animal lover. She owns several pets … > >Himalayan cats and Chow dogs. It’s very evident that she greatly enjoys > >having this veterinarian on her show as a regular. The segments are > >usually very boisterous, informative and fun … and the animals are > >always so adorable. > No doubt, I was telling my husband last night about the episode & > cracked up. It was so funny. > Denise & Brian (& Spaz the fid) > Why did the chicken cross the road? > God came down from the heavens, and He said unto the chicken, > "Thou shalt cross the road." And the chicken crossed the road, and > there was > much rejoicing.
Response:
Oh okay…I miss cable, I live in the sticks, so we don’t get it. At one time we had wireless satelite thing a ma giggy, but it was $60 a month for 18 channels, so we gave that up…thats almost six new bird toys a month!! Anyway, I would like to see those animal episodes, maybe one day <sigh>
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Martha features a guest veterinarian, by the name of Dr. Marc Marrone >(sp?), on her show regularly. He discusses pets and pet care … birds, >dogs, cats, reptiles, etc, and quite often talks about exotic pets. He >usually brings along his pet birds and those are the ones you see perched >on his and Martha’s shoulders. > Ditto! > She wan’t giving out advice, quite the contrary. Martha was a little > timid about picking up the containers of Lizards, and she is pretty > "stiff" with that cockatoo on her shoulder. > She was just doing what the guy told her to do & helping out. She did > not give one ounce of advise. >Martha herself is a great animal lover. She owns several pets … >Himalayan cats and Chow dogs. It’s very evident that she greatly enjoys >having this veterinarian on her show as a regular. The segments are >usually very boisterous, informative and fun … and the animals are >always so adorable. > No doubt, I was telling my husband last night about the episode & > cracked up. It was so funny. > Denise & Brian (& Spaz the fid) > Why did the chicken cross the road? > God came down from the heavens, and He said unto the chicken, > "Thou shalt cross the road." And the chicken crossed the road, and there was > much rejoicing.
Response:
>Martha features a guest veterinarian, by the name of Dr. Marc Marrone >(sp?), on her show regularly. He discusses pets and pet care … birds, >dogs, cats, reptiles, etc, and quite often talks about exotic pets. He >usually brings along his pet birds and those are the ones you see perched >on his and Martha’s shoulders.
Ditto! She wan’t giving out advice, quite the contrary. Martha was a little timid about picking up the containers of Lizards, and she is pretty "stiff" with that cockatoo on her shoulder. She was just doing what the guy told her to do & helping out. She did not give one ounce of advise. >Martha herself is a great animal lover. She owns several pets … >Himalayan cats and Chow dogs. It’s very evident that she greatly enjoys >having this veterinarian on her show as a regular. The segments are >usually very boisterous, informative and fun … and the animals are >always so adorable.
No doubt, I was telling my husband last night about the episode & cracked up. It was so funny. Denise & Brian (& Spaz the fid) Why did the chicken cross the road? God came down from the heavens, and He said unto the chicken, "Thou shalt cross the road." And the chicken crossed the road, and there was much rejoicing.
Response:
: Grrr Grrr, you mean Marth Stewart is telling about keeping repitles or you :mean she is making a plant vivarium? Because if she is the wrong one to be :handing out bird info, she’s REALLY the wrong one to be handing out reptile :info. She would probably throw up if she saw a snake eat…but then again, :I guess a lot of people might do that, I know that reptiles aren’t the most :loved of animals. She could probably design a nice tropical vivarium, but she probably doesn’t have the herp experience to be handing out care advice. -J. — Jennifer Mullen | Another non-functioning site was –Mike Brunker for MSNBC
Response:
Martha features a guest veterinarian, by the name of Dr. Marc Marrone (sp?), on her show regularly. He discusses pets and pet care … birds, dogs, cats, reptiles, etc, and quite often talks about exotic pets. He usually brings along his pet birds and those are the ones you see perched on his and Martha’s shoulders. I’ve wondered at some of the professional advice the vet has given out. Sometimes it seems a little "off", but he certainly comes across as a very pleasant and well-meaning chap. On a previous show, he mentioned that most of his pet birds were "rescue birds", so hats off to him for that. Dr. Marc also said that he rescued several reptiles, alligators, iguanas and such that were just dumped on him. Martha herself is a great animal lover. She owns several pets … Himalayan cats and Chow dogs. It’s very evident that she greatly enjoys having this veterinarian on her show as a regular. The segments are usually very boisterous, informative and fun … and the animals are always so adorable. - Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Grrr Grrr, you mean Marth Stewart is telling about keeping repitles or you >mean she is making a plant vivarium? Because if she is the wrong one to be >handing out bird info, she’s REALLY the wrong one to be handing out reptile >info. She would probably throw up if she saw a snake eat…but then again, >I guess a lot of people might do that, I know that reptiles aren’t the most >loved of animals. > Please don’t flame me but I was watching Matha Stewart (eek), and she > had a segment with the "animal" guy (The one with all the birds) and > they were showing how to make a Vivarium (Lizard aquarium) > Of course he had all his birds along. > They had (I think) a Cockatoo on Martha’s shoulder, and he had a > Cockatiel on one shoulder and a (I think) Macaw (Big & red) bird on > his other shoulder. The bird I think is a Macaw he called Harry, and > Harry kept on pulling his glasses off (multiple times) and the > Cokatiel ended up over on Martha’s opposite shoulder, & then bit her > ear (Of course Martha kept her composure) and there was a Gray sitting > on a perch nearby. > They preceded to make the Vivarium, and when they got to the point > where they needed to mist the plants, the Gray comes flying over like > "give me some!" and so martha sprays the Gray & the Too, and the > "Animal" guy is talking about the Vivarium when you still hear this > "Shh Shh Shh Shh" like the sprayer, but martha is no longer spraying, > it was the Too! > I have never had such a bellie laugh in a long time > Denise & Brian (& Spaz the fid) > Why did the chicken cross the road? > God came down from the heavens, and He said unto the chicken, > "Thou shalt cross the road." And the chicken crossed the road, and >there was > much rejoicing.
Response:
Grrr Grrr, you mean Marth Stewart is telling about keeping repitles or you mean she is making a plant vivarium? Because if she is the wrong one to be handing out bird info, she’s REALLY the wrong one to be handing out reptile info. She would probably throw up if she saw a snake eat…but then again, I guess a lot of people might do that, I know that reptiles aren’t the most loved of animals.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please don’t flame me but I was watching Matha Stewart (eek), and she > had a segment with the "animal" guy (The one with all the birds) and > they were showing how to make a Vivarium (Lizard aquarium) > Of course he had all his birds along. > They had (I think) a Cockatoo on Martha’s shoulder, and he had a > Cockatiel on one shoulder and a (I think) Macaw (Big & red) bird on > his other shoulder. The bird I think is a Macaw he called Harry, and > Harry kept on pulling his glasses off (multiple times) and the > Cokatiel ended up over on Martha’s opposite shoulder, & then bit her > ear (Of course Martha kept her composure) and there was a Gray sitting > on a perch nearby. > They preceded to make the Vivarium, and when they got to the point > where they needed to mist the plants, the Gray comes flying over like > "give me some!" and so martha sprays the Gray & the Too, and the > "Animal" guy is talking about the Vivarium when you still hear this > "Shh Shh Shh Shh" like the sprayer, but martha is no longer spraying, > it was the Too! > I have never had such a bellie laugh in a long time > Denise & Brian (& Spaz the fid) > Why did the chicken cross the road? > God came down from the heavens, and He said unto the chicken, > "Thou shalt cross the road." And the chicken crossed the road, and there was > much rejoicing.
Response:
Please don’t flame me but I was watching Matha Stewart (eek), and she had a segment with the "animal" guy (The one with all the birds) and they were showing how to make a Vivarium (Lizard aquarium) Of course he had all his birds along. They had (I think) a Cockatoo on Martha’s shoulder, and he had a Cockatiel on one shoulder and a (I think) Macaw (Big & red) bird on his other shoulder. The bird I think is a Macaw he called Harry, and Harry kept on pulling his glasses off (multiple times) and the Cokatiel ended up over on Martha’s opposite shoulder, & then bit her ear (Of course Martha kept her composure) and there was a Gray sitting on a perch nearby. They preceded to make the Vivarium, and when they got to the point where they needed to mist the plants, the Gray comes flying over like "give me some!" and so martha sprays the Gray & the Too, and the "Animal" guy is talking about the Vivarium when you still hear this "Shh Shh Shh Shh" like the sprayer, but martha is no longer spraying, it was the Too! I have never had such a bellie laugh in a long time Denise & Brian (& Spaz the fid) Why did the chicken cross the road? God came down from the heavens, and He said unto the chicken, "Thou shalt cross the road." And the chicken crossed the road, and there was much rejoicing.
Response:
October 27, 1999
Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am looking for a non-profit organization like a zoo, etc. that will accept > a pair of eclectus parrots as a donation. The pair has been together for 4 > years. The male is 5.5 and the female 4.5 years. They are not from the same > family and were purchased from ABRC in Florida. I would like to donate them > to a zoo or other tax deduction qualified institution. I would like to visit > them in the future. I will consider them for sale to a person that has > experience with eclectus and will keep them as pets but prefer to donate > them. The female is the best talking bird I have ever heard. She has over > 70 clear phrases. Unlike other talking birds, I have video available on the > web to prove it!
please leave name and number on machine
Response:
Well Most zoos don’t want pet birds that have had anything to do with humans.imprinting and all…and it makes bird people look bad as irrisponsible bird ownership……The Columbia Zoo in Lafayette IN has some Exotics …You might call them…I no nothing about how they got them just that our club donates toys to them for the winter……Bonita
Response:
San Francisco – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Where are you? > I am looking for a non-profit organization like a zoo, etc. that will accept > a pair of eclectus parrots as a donation. The pair has been together for 4 > years. The male is 5.5 and the female 4.5 years. They are not from the same > family and were purchased from ABRC in Florida. I would like to donate them > to a zoo or other tax deduction qualified institution. I would like to visit > them in the future. I will consider them for sale to a person that has > experience with eclectus and will keep them as pets but prefer to donate > them. The female is the best talking bird I have ever heard. She has over > 70 clear phrases. Unlike other talking birds, I have video available on the > web to prove it!
Response:
Where are you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am looking for a non-profit organization like a zoo, etc. that will accept > a pair of eclectus parrots as a donation. The pair has been together for 4 > years. The male is 5.5 and the female 4.5 years. They are not from the same > family and were purchased from ABRC in Florida. I would like to donate them > to a zoo or other tax deduction qualified institution. I would like to visit > them in the future. I will consider them for sale to a person that has > experience with eclectus and will keep them as pets but prefer to donate > them. The female is the best talking bird I have ever heard. She has over > 70 clear phrases. Unlike other talking birds, I have video available on the > web to prove it!
Response:
I am looking for a non-profit organization like a zoo, etc. that will accept a pair of eclectus parrots as a donation. The pair has been together for 4 years. The male is 5.5 and the female 4.5 years. They are not from the same family and were purchased from ABRC in Florida. I would like to donate them to a zoo or other tax deduction qualified institution. I would like to visit them in the future. I will consider them for sale to a person that has experience with eclectus and will keep them as pets but prefer to donate them. The female is the best talking bird I have ever heard. She has over 70 clear phrases. Unlike other talking birds, I have video available on the web to prove it!
Response:
November 13, 1998
Question:
A recent visitor played some new games with Bandit my BFA who takes strangers a lot better than Chico, my DYH, who wants to kill them all. This visitor would play ‘tug of war’ with items, offering something (a veggie tanned leather strip for example) and then tugging on it when Bandit took it. He also brought out the stuffed green frog that Bandit hated (so much for the article which said pet birds like stuffed toys if they are the same color as themselves), and Bandit would sally forth to beat it up. I looked at this a bit askance, because, quite frankly, I try not to ‘upset’ my birds, and I never could tell if Bandit enjoyed bashing his frog, or if it truly upset him to see it. He would certainly become agitated (fanned tail, etc) It also rather disturbed me that after a ‘beak wrestling’ session, I offered Bandit a piece of apple, and he bypassed the apple, took hold of my thumb, and bit down, very deliberately, but with no real anger or agitation. He has never bitten when offered food before. I’m not sure he realized this wasn’t part of the game. I also don’t want him to do that when people offer food. On the other hand, he seemed to like the visitor, and I didn’t get the impression he was frightened, or disturbed by the person. I know guys often like to wrestle and play rough with their birds, and birds often like to wrestle too, from what I’ve heard on the list. How can I tell if this behavior upsets Bandit, and should be forbidden, or if he enjoys it, and I should do it too? Confused Pat and Bandit and Chico and Blue Boy Budgie
Response:
My T.A.G. loves to beak wrestle!! I will gently hold his beak and shift my hand back and forth. He wants to get the best of me, so sometimes I let him. He will hold a couple of my fingers in his beak. I believe he thinks that when I don’t move my hand, he has me pinned. We play this game often and I feel that I am causing no harm as long as he is taught NO when I don’t feel like playing. If NO is not taught…I suppose this game could get out of hand (perhaps cause loss of a piece of hand???).
Response:
} to wrestle too, from what I’ve heard on the list. How can I tell } if this behavior upsets Bandit, and should be forbidden, or if he } enjoys it, and I should do it too?
My severe macaw Sidney loves to wrestle, play tug of war, and be manhandled. He (gender assumed) gets fluffy, dilates his eyes, and fans his tail when we play rough. Very rarely he’ll get overloaded and forget that it hurts me when he bites hard. If he bites I just tell him to be gentle and he’s fine. If I offer him some food immediately after wrestling and he’s still in wrestling mood (still fluffy, etc.), chances are he’ll just chew the food into little bits and throw it around, or just crunch it into powder and drop it, and then grab at my fingers to wrestle some more. He doesn’t bite. He can look quite threatening (or so my guests say), but all he does is grab, not bite. I don’t mind Sidney grabbing my finger, then licking it and pulling on it. My Timneh Ralph doesn’t like to wrestle, but he sees how much attention a wrestling bird can get, and is starting to tolerate some physical play. Ralph has a clucking noise that he uses to convey "thank you" or "my, what a novel concept; that is most intriguing." Ralph will usually cluck after some physical play. Being familiar with my birds’ behaviours relative to their moods, I’m going to say that I think both of my birds enjoy physical play, and it doesn’t upset them unless they’re busy doing something else at the instant I want to play. Kevin — Kevin Chu It’s like a Slurpee!
Response:
My 2 year old CAG, Tomo, exhibits similar things when she has been over-excited, or just on "People-Overload". At times, when I have guests, she will take her frustration that these guests are invading her home out on me (usually shortly after they leave). So far, I think this is just a natural tennancy of a gray. Biting and nibbling (even what we consider painful) is often a method of play or affection in the wild.
Response:
The pulling and tugging of beaks is a bonding thing and gets birds very worked up. I’m not surprised your bird nipped you after this very passionate display! Careful with those stuffed animals … saw a bird get a claw stuck in one and sat jerking on his leg for hours until we finally got the store clerks attention. Poor thing was exhausted! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > A recent visitor played some new games with Bandit my BFA who takes > strangers a lot better than Chico, my DYH, who wants to kill them all. > This visitor would play ‘tug of war’ with items, offering something (a > veggie tanned leather strip for example) and then tugging on it when > Bandit took it. He also brought out the stuffed green frog that Bandit > hated (so much for the article which said pet birds like stuffed toys > if they are the same color as themselves), and Bandit would sally forth > to beat it up. > *significant snip!*
Response:
August 14, 1996
Question:
Does anyone know a mail order vendor who sells the bells that you get on bird toys. My conure has become an expert at removing the clapper, and I would like to replace the bells and not the whole toy. TIA Steve — Podell Systems http://www.podell.com/podell Manufacturer of Console Manager for NetWare
Response:
> Does anyone know a mail order vendor who sells the bells that you get on > bird toys. My conure has become an expert at removing the clapper, and > I would like to replace the bells and not the whole toy. > TIA > Steve > — > Podell Systems > http://www.podell.com/podell > Manufacturer of Console Manager for NetWare
Re: bells To: << Does anyone know a mail order vendor who sells the bells that you get on bird toys. My conure has become an expert at removing the clapper, and I would like to replace the bells and not the whole toy. TIA Steve >> Hi Steve, I don’t normally post to rec.pets.birds, I just read it occasionally : ) I’m still not sure if it’s a good idea for companies to barge in and post a plug, but I couldn’t help myself on this one…. and I tried to post the following message to the newsgroup, and it came back! Shows you how much I know about newsgroups : ( I am the owner of Birds of Play, Inc. bird toy company. We have found a great source of very well made bells for birds, and sell them seperately with other toy making components. I have a sun conure, and he cannot get the clapper out of these bells! Neither can our grey : ) Our most famos toys are the Bell Lover’s Delight and the Bell Cube. If you would like a catalog, call 616-663-2833 or see our ads in Bird Talk and Pet Bird Report. Thanks, and good luck with your conure : ) Mary Birds of Play, Inc
Response:
August 9, 1996
Question:
Nigel is a newly-married (2 years) scarlet, about 14 years old, has plucked for years. His birdy body is pretty much naked, legs pretty much so, recent work on leading edges of wings. Lots of follicle damage. He’s my only plucker. Neurotic, but a good lad. His wife DAB (Dumb-Assed Bird) (Schubot’s name, not mine) hasn’t a feather out of place on her exquisite little birdy body. Obviously I haven’t tried everything – it just seems like it. Today, after several months, I took him out of birdy bondage – rigid neck extender collar with elizabethan adaptor (which he completely defeated anyway. As soon as he was free, he immediately began scratching all over, and pulling the odd feather that disturbed the satin smoothness of his skin. Obviously the boy had dry skin, so I rubbed him all over with hand lotion. Basted him thoroughly. And he stopped scratching/plucking. So I’ll keep doing it – daily?? OK. Point is, this can’t be a long-term solution – hand cream gunks up what feathers he has. It does suggest, however, that a higher fat diet might be in order. Perhaps higher something else? 1. Does anybody have a diet recommendation? Balances, ratios…? 2. Does anybody else have experience in this specific area (dry skin/diet/neuroses)? 3. Prozac has been discussed as an aid to stopping plucking. Does anybody have anything on this? Especially side effects, contraindications, and dosages. Thank you in advance for your consideration of this, and for your responses. John Dunbar Not "Dances with Birds"
Response:
You could try Oxyfresh Pet Gel. Gaby —
Response:
Someone posted here a week or two ago about a dietary supplement for birds that pick due to dry skin. I can’t remember who it was, but I think the supplement was something given to dogs for the same problem. The dose, of course, was different and recommended by a veterinarian. Maybe someone else remembers the post or you can find it in archives. It might be just what poor Nigel needs.
Response:
> Point is, this can’t be a long-term solution – hand cream gunks up what > feathers he has. It does suggest, however, that a higher fat diet > might be in order. Perhaps higher something else?
I would be pretty concerned at ingestion of body lotion. I would suggest instead daily misting and a good weekly soak down with plain water. Often the dry skin is exacerbated by not being able to bathe on a frequent basis. Also, I am glad to hear that you removed the collar — I have not read many success stories with feather plucking and collar use, in fact, considering how much parrots depend on using their feet to interact with their food, I feel it is cruel and inhumane to leave collars on as long or short term solution to this type of problem. This is of course assuming the problem is behavioral and not based on a physical problem (a good certified avian vet should be able to narrow diagnosis). Definite known fact that macaws have a higher fat dietary requirement than some other parrot species (amazons tend to have more problems with being overweight and do not need high fat diet). Pine nuts and other high fat nuts are great additions to varied diet. Maybe if he is busy trying to get coconut meat out of a half coconut shell he will be temporarily diverted from plucking. > 3. Prozac has been discussed as an aid to stopping plucking. Does > anybody have anything on this? Especially side effects, > contraindications, and dosages.
I would definitely not consider this option unless a certified Avian Vet was the one who suggested it and that he or she oversaw it! Sally Blanchard, Editor Pet Bird Report, has worked with African Greys for over 20 years and has LOTS of useful information on the subject of feather picking (greys can be good at this). I would highly recommend this publication as a starting point for other tactics (no, I am not involved in the publication myself, just a huge fan of the great information). Sally writes that improper early socialization is usually the root cause of feather picking in greys and it is hard to undo that damage in an adult bird, but she offers so much information on the subject that it is really worth checking out. Just out of curiosity — does your macaw have plenty of toys that he can tear apart instead of his feathers? Good luck and I hope your macaw can find other activities to enjoy. Good to hear that you have not just given up on him because he is not "perfect" anymore. There are some great pet parrots out there that may not look perfect, but still deserve to be treated to a good life. –Darla Sharp
Response:
April 11, 1995
Question:
NE>This afternoon, as we found ourselves purchasing a large, parrot-shaped cook NE>jar, we began reflecting on the quantity of decorative stuff we have that NE>features parrots. We have boxes. We have dishes (Lynn Chase Parrots of NE>Paradise — beautiful china!) soft-sculpture macaw, coat rack, computer NE>screen-savers, and of course, the omnipresent birds themselves. We started NE>wondering if we were the only people who exclaim, "Oooohhh! Gotta have it!" NE>every time we see items with parrot images. Okay. So who else out there ha NE>found themselves decorating with bird likenesses? NE>– Sandy and Michael Interesting question. I can’t do TOO much decorating with parrotphernalia or anything else due to busy beaks, but I have a few bird things. I have parakeet & cockatiel refrigerator magnets, a tiel Christmas ornament, a macaw mousepad, a macaw water globe/music box (a Christmas present), parrot earrings (that I can’t wear near my tiels or else they grab them!) & a couple of t shirts decorated with various birds. (My t shirts also get decorated BY my birds but that’s another story…<G>) Annie —
January 29, 1995
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Craig Stark writes: > My girlfriend just bought a hand-raised baby cockatiel (her first). > While I’ve raised a few birds (budgie, Alexandrine, & an abused / > neglected TAG) I’ve got a new problem to deal with in this little guy. > Unlike every other bird I’ve had or had close contact with, this one > is almost too bonded to humans. Instead of trying to build trust, > we’re faced with having to teach it to exist on its own. > For example, if either of us is in the room (or just outside) the > Campion (the ‘tiel) tears about his cage (being 3 months old, he’s > still not too good at it either.) If his cage door is open and we’re > around, he flutters to the ground (often via the desktop and a nearby > chair) and runs to be with us. Mind you, we’ve only had him for about > a week and we haven’t been lavishing attention on him. Sure he gets a > good amount (loves the head scratch) but we don’t have the time to > spend all day with him. In fact, he’s alone (well, TAG and budgie > within eye or earshot, but no people) in the daytime and we make him > spend some of the evening in the cage. > However, it’s to the point that if we don’t want him racing around the > cage (and breaking feathers- including one blood feather) getting all > upset, we’ve got to stay out of the room. In a 2 room apartment, it > makes life a bit difficult. > Any suggestions on teaching independence? (BTW, yes he has toys). > Thanks in advance, > Craig
Graig – I have a ‘tiel that is almost as bad and this is what I do(hope I don’t get flammed) I take a water bottle and when Zipper starts going off in his cage wanting out I spray water over his head. This water bottle is set to be used like a squirt gun. I don’t know if this is a good thing to do but it has worked. It only took a couple of times. Zipper’s is about 8 months old now and he wants out all the time. I do let him sit on a purch that is on his door and this seems to make him happy. Hope this helps. Good luck. Sarah, Zipper, Silkie(Little Yorkie) —
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Craig Stark writes: > My girlfriend just bought a hand-raised baby cockatiel (her first). > While I’ve raised a few birds (budgie, Alexandrine, & an abused / > neglected TAG) I’ve got a new problem to deal with in this little guy. > Unlike every other bird I’ve had or had close contact with, this one > is almost too bonded to humans. Instead of trying to build trust, > we’re faced with having to teach it to exist on its own. > For example, if either of us is in the room (or just outside) the > Campion (the ‘tiel) tears about his cage (being 3 months old, he’s > still not too good at it either.) If his cage door is open and we’re > around, he flutters to the ground (often via the desktop and a nearby > chair) and runs to be with us. Mind you, we’ve only had him for about > a week and we haven’t been lavishing attention on him. Sure he gets a > good amount (loves the head scratch) but we don’t have the time to > spend all day with him. In fact, he’s alone (well, TAG and budgie > within eye or earshot, but no people) in the daytime and we make him > spend some of the evening in the cage. > However, it’s to the point that if we don’t want him racing around the > cage (and breaking feathers- including one blood feather) getting all > upset, we’ve got to stay out of the room. In a 2 room apartment, it > makes life a bit difficult. > Any suggestions on teaching independence? (BTW, yes he has toys). > Thanks in advance, > Craig > Graig – > I have a ‘tiel that is almost as bad and this is what I do(hope > I don’t get flammed) I take a water bottle and when Zipper > starts going off in his cage wanting out I spray water over his > head. This water bottle is set to be used like a squirt gun. > I don’t know if this is a good thing to do but it has worked. > It only took a couple of times. Zipper’s is about 8 months old > now and he wants out all the time. I do let him sit on a purch > that is on his door and this seems to make him happy. Hope this > helps. Good luck. > Sarah, Zipper, Silkie(Little Yorkie) > —
Poor little Campion – we bring them home and then don’t want to spend too much time with them. I think it must be hard to be baby all alone. I understand that you’re looking for the independent type but frankly I think its nice to have a little birdy want to spend time with you. My tiel wants to be on my shoulder as much as possible. She does, however, have her independent times. Lately, because I’m now working a second job in the evenings, she is extremely reluctant to bed down for the night when I return home late. She wants to spend time with me and cuddle and comiserate about the day. She’s very personable. I don’t intend this as a flame and I know it can be enervating to have a clingy bird that sqawks to boot. If Ruffles ever gets to me or won’t stop I warn her in a certain tone of voice that she will have to spend time covered up. If she doesn’t stop (which most times she doesn’t she is very determined) I just put her in her cage and cover for a while. She quiets down and returns with more dignity for her next outing. I know lots of people use water guns and I do have a water pistol I thought I would try but I just don’t have the heart. She looks at me funny if its cool in the house when I do the squirt bottle thing. I may also be a spoiled owner. I have gotten used to Ruffles assisting me with almost every task. It makes things interesting for example when I clean the fridge she descends by back until she’s hanging from the seat of the pants (then when I straighten up – she returns to the shoulder seat). I enjoy the company and the antics. She enjoys the games and is a very happy bird. Good luck — Cardiovascular Research Center Phone: 924-5092 Fax: 924-2828
Response:
> Any suggestions on teaching independence? (BTW, yes he has toys).
Heh heh. I also have a semi-cuddly TAG that used to be either wild-caught or parent-raised. I really wasn’t ready for becoming a very strong bird magnet (I’m always having to peel a certain severe macaw off my body) when Lorna and I brought Sidney (a handraised severe macaw) home. I saw some good advice recently. I can’t remember where, maybe it was right here on rec.pets.birds. When you first enter the bird room, just say hi and don’t pay the bird any special attention for about 20 minutes. That is supposed to teach the bird not to expect immediate lavishing as soon as you enter. I’ve also read some good things here and there…. If your bird is really young, you can just call to it once in a while if you’re not visible. In the wild, birds call to each other so they always know where the other is. If the bird is quiet and playing by itself, reward it every once in a while. There is also some advice in The Guide, and I’m ashamed to say I’ve read only half the book so far…. The Pet Bird Report and/or Sally Blanchard and/or Chris Davis would also be good sources. With Sidney…. Well, he’s sort of getting better. If I’m not visible and he starts screaming for me I just say "I’m over here Sidney" once in a while and he calms down. He’s not as much of an attention leech as he was, and he’s slowly becoming more independent. I’m just going to be patient with Sidney. He deserves it. —
Response:
don’t know if anybody has mentioned this yet, but if you use a squirt bottle on a bird for bad behavior, you’re killing your chances of having good interactive baths later on with the squirt bottle. lisa
Response:
For our two greys we have rattan baskets with the handles wrapped in string, so they can follow us wherever we go and have a steady perch ( it makes eating with us easier, too ) but they still have independence. Of course there are toys hung on the baskets, though the favorite toy for both is old business cards, and being in advertising I collect the cards from everyone who was laid off, which gives me an inexhaustible supply. Sean Skilling Whitney Rauh Glitch Xenip
Response:
>don’t know if anybody has mentioned this yet, but if you use a squirt >bottle on a bird for bad behavior, you’re killing your chances of having >good interactive baths later on with the squirt bottle. >lisa — I use the bottle but mine still loves to shower, he even will stand on my shoulder for a while, then it gets hard for him to hold on so he will go down to the floor, but if you move the shower head he looks around for the water and runs right to it. I think the squirt bottle works because of the surprise factor not the water itself. __ / ) /___/_</_/ (_<_>_/ (_/_/_<_/ 708-378-6388 Cube A.1022R _> Mail Stop 123
Response:
: > Craig Stark writes: : > I don’t get flammed) I take a water bottle and when Zipper: > — Yikes! I really don’t know what else to say. I can relate to the problem of a tempermental bird but I think it’s cruel to spray them with water. All they want to do is be with us (they have nobody else). I think there are better, equally effective, ways to treat the problem. You said you didn’t want to get flammed, and I hope I’m not doing that but it made me cringe when I read that, it goes against everything I’ve ever been told and have learned myself. I hope you won’t think I’m being too opinionated but for your birds sake, I hope you can find a better way of handling the situation. Certainly, I don’t think this method is good advice to new novice bird owners. Also, birds love to be bathed with a spray bottle, shooting them in the face with a stream of water can cause them to make a negative association with water and cease to enjoy baths. Lynn
Response:
>Craig Stark writes: > My girlfriend just bought a hand-raised baby cockatiel (her first). > While I’ve raised a few birds (budgie, Alexandrine, & an abused / > neglected TAG) I’ve got a new problem to deal with in this little guy. > Unlike every other bird I’ve had or had close contact with, this one > is almost too bonded to humans. Instead of trying to build trust, > we’re faced with having to teach it to exist on its own.
Sally Blanchard had some advice on this when she was here a few weeks ago, you might try eMailing her and ask her about any reprints of articles you could order on this subject. If I am recalling her talk correctly, Sally said these "velcro birds" need to feel secure on their own. Get the bird onto your hand with the up command, then put him down somewhere familiar with the down command, telling him "It’s okay." Pick him up again. Walk him around the place, picking him up and putting him down in various places, all the time reassuring him. Put him down somewhere, and step back a little, saying "It’s okay." Pick him up again. Try it again, this time stepping away a little further. Work on this routine gradually over time; eventually you should be able to go into another room, reassuring him by talking to him. This is what I remember, and it may well not be precisely correct. Like I said, drop Sally a line about articles, or call her up on her consulting phone number–this is right up her alley. >I have a ‘tiel that is almost as bad and this is what I do(hope >I don’t get flammed) I take a water bottle and when Zipper >starts going off in his cage wanting out I spray water over his >head.
Sorry, you get gently flamed–this isn’t a good strategy. The bird is squawking for attention, and you’re rewarding him by this big drama, thus ENCOURAGING him…birds’ll take whatever kind of attention you’ll give, good or bad. You might want to check into Sally Blanchard’s articles on this also.
Response:
>Craig Stark writes: >> My girlfriend just bought a hand-raised baby cockatiel (her first). >> While I’ve raised a few birds (budgie, Alexandrine, & an abused / >> neglected TAG) I’ve got a new problem to deal with in this little guy. >> Unlike every other bird I’ve had or had close contact with, this one >> is almost too bonded to humans. Instead of trying to build trust, >> we’re faced with having to teach it to exist on its own. >> >> For example, if either of us is in the room (or just outside) the >> Campion (the ‘tiel) tears about his cage (being 3 months old, he’s >> still not too good at it either.) If his cage door is open and we’re >> around, he flutters to the ground (often via the desktop and a nearby >> chair) and runs to be with us. Mind you, we’ve only had him for about >> a week and we haven’t been lavishing attention on him. Sure he gets a >> good amount (loves the head scratch) but we don’t have the time to >> spend all day with him. In fact, he’s alone (well, TAG and budgie >> within eye or earshot, but no people) in the daytime and we make him >> spend some of the evening in the cage. >> >> However, it’s to the point that if we don’t want him racing around the >> cage (and breaking feathers- including one blood feather) getting all >> upset, we’ve got to stay out of the room. In a 2 room apartment, it >> makes life a bit difficult. >> >> Any suggestions on teaching independence? (BTW, yes he has toys). >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Craig >Graig – >I have a ‘tiel that is almost as bad and this is what I do(hope >I don’t get flammed) I take a water bottle and when Zipper >starts going off in his cage wanting out I spray water over his >head. This water bottle is set to be used like a squirt gun. >I don’t know if this is a good thing to do but it has worked. >It only took a couple of times. Zipper’s is about 8 months old >now and he wants out all the time. I do let him sit on a purch >that is on his door and this seems to make him happy. Hope this >helps. Good luck. >Sarah, Zipper, Silkie(Little Yorkie) >– I recieved a Red headed conure that was not abused, but was left in his cage always! The owners were terrified to take him out. They had each been bitten many times (blood drawn regularly). These people got him from someone who got him from someone. I decided to give it a try, he was free and I figured if I couldn’t handle him I would find someone else to try. He bit me severly the first day, and I grabbed a water bottle and let him have a few shots in the chest. (I go for the chest that way there is no danger of hitting the eyes) and it did only a little at first. The third time he bit me I drenched him until he started squaking. After that day his attitude changed. The water bottle should be a brite color. He knows if you just put your hand on theat bottle, he behaves immediately. You have to make sure you discipline him immediately when he starts making a fuss at your leaving the room, or he won ‘t really associate the punishment with the behaviour. My conure is now great around people and comes out of the cage at night. Also, he loves showers in the tub. The original owners were affraid to take him out so they would put the whole cage in the shower to clean the cage and found he loved to run under the water. He still hates the water bottle though. Good luck. — __ / ) /___/_</_/ (_<_>_/ (_/_/_<_/ 708-378-6388 Cube A.1022R _> Mail Stop 123
Response:
November 10, 1994
Question:
To: Melissa Schilling The key to having an unspoiled well-adjusted parrot is not the amount of time you spend with a baby when it is young but what you do during that time. If you just spend time cuddling it, then you will have an overdependent demanding pet. If think of yourself as the parent or the teacher and teach it to explore, to play with toys, to accept change and new adventure and encourage it to play by itself even when you are there — then you will have a well-adjusted parrot companion. I have written several articles about this in both the Pet Bird Report and Bird Talk. Your concepts as you have presented them in your note are "right on" .
Response:
Actually, Missi, I think this "don’t give too much attention" business is sort of a bad compensation for something else people do wrong. Which you hit on with your statement: "For instance, I read that the mother will introduce more space between herself and the baby gradually," There are lots of people who EITHER play/cuddle with their bird, or otherwise leave them in their cages. If these folks would make more of an effort to introduce a variety of environments to the bird, the amount of attention they provide would be less of a factor. The bird would naturally develope a more independant mindset. An "independance building" exercise that I use is to plop the bird down in different places around the house while I’m doing chores. I’ve even taken to sticking her on the shelving in the garage while I’m working outside. She loves it (likes to throw the empty cans in the "recycle" box on the floor). I’ve been using this strategy for about half her (2 year old) life (it took me awhile to realize she wouldn’t break if she wasn’t tide to her perch). And I’m very happy with the results – no chronic yelling, no plucking, no intentional biting. Just a happy macaw who will play with anything she can get her beak on. Anyway, the point being that if people would train their birds to be independant the same way they would a child or a dog, they wouldn’t have to worry about "timing" how much physical attention they give.
Response:
I understand making the comparison between children and birds, and on the surface it makes sense. The only problem is – children grow up, mature, and go on to new experiences in life. Birds really don’t. The bird will retain the intellect and emotional maturity of a 2 – 4 year old child. It won’t go to school, make new friends, get married, leave home, etc. It will stay with you for an average of 7 years for a budgie to 80 plus for a macaw, with varying years in between. I think the danger is the bird will not understand why attention is being withdrawn, and not understanding, will be unhappy, act out, and do the things a two year old does to get attention. IMHO, that is the big difference, and that is why it is critical to not overwhelm new baby bird with attention that won’t be kept up. — Sue
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’ve been pondering the statement I have read in several books and on the >net: "You should only give your new baby bird as much attention as you >will give it when it is an adult" (with variations including such things >as only give it 20% of the attention you will be able to give it later, >etc.) The more I think about this, the more wrong it seems. First of >all, I have read that mama birds spend nearly all their time with the >babies when they are very little, and gradually give them more >independence as the baby grows older. For instance, I read that the >mother will introduce more space between herself and the baby gradually, >after he is weaned, so that he becomes more comfortable with being on his >own, but gets lots and lots of quality time with mom while he’s still >young. Also, I have heard and read many many comparisons between baby >birds and baby humans. Even their intelligence levels are supposed to be >quite similar. But human babies need (and usually receive!) almost >constant attention until they are toddlers. As the child grows older it >becomes more interested and more capable of doing things on it’s own. >The transition is usually very gradual and natural (with the exception of >that often traumatic first day at kindergarten!). So why are we supposed
Hi Missi, You have struck on a topic near and dear to my heart! I think that you are asking a very, very valid question, and I am extremely interested in hearing what the experts may have to say about it. I think that your arguments for giving your little guy lots of attention is a strong one. I have two children, and when my first was born I was given alot of unasked for criticism and advice about how I raised my son. One thing that I have always firmly believed is that you can never give a human baby too much love and attention. To the amazment and skeptism of others, I breastfed my sons on demand, and when they cried I picked them up, and I spent ungodly amounts of time cuddling them. Everyone around me told me that I was spoiling my children, and that I would end up with whiny, clinging children. I saw no need to ’socialize’ my kids by forcing them to stay with a sitter while I went to work, or carried on my own social life. The opposite is true. I have an extremely well adjusted independent 3 year old, and his little brother is following along in his footsteps quite nicely. Needless to say I feel quite vindicated in my position and beliefs. Conventional wisdom is often quite mistaken. BUT, there is also this consideration with Bongo. Bongo is a bird, not a human, and while there may be many similarities in their emotional and physcological makeup to human beings, I would hesitate in treating Bongo like a human baby without good advice from someone very knowledgeable about bird psychology. Sally Blanchard from Pet Bird Report does lurk here, and I would suggest that you pose your question to her. If she does not have the time to respond here (which is probably the case) it may be that she will devote some time and space to the question in her magazine, or in her column for Bird Talk. Congratulations on bringing Bongo home. Please keep us updated on his progress, and on any new information you may get regarding your question above! I for one, will be very interested! Patti
Response:
I’ve been pondering the statement I have read in several books and on the net: "You should only give your new baby bird as much attention as you will give it when it is an adult" (with variations including such things as only give it 20% of the attention you will be able to give it later, etc.) The more I think about this, the more wrong it seems. First of all, I have read that mama birds spend nearly all their time with the babies when they are very little, and gradually give them more independence as the baby grows older. For instance, I read that the mother will introduce more space between herself and the baby gradually, after he is weaned, so that he becomes more comfortable with being on his own, but gets lots and lots of quality time with mom while he’s still young. Also, I have heard and read many many comparisons between baby birds and baby humans. Even their intelligence levels are supposed to be quite similar. But human babies need (and usually receive!) almost constant attention until they are toddlers. As the child grows older it becomes more interested and more capable of doing things on it’s own. The transition is usually very gradual and natural (with the exception of that often traumatic first day at kindergarten!). So why are we supposed to refrain from spending a lot of time with our new babies? I understand that people are worried about the bird becoming spoiled and dependent, but wouldn’t it be better to spend those formative early months/(years?) intensively interacting, and have the transition to the bird being more independent be done gradually? What are your thoughts? Missi
Response:
July 24, 1994
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