Question:
> Sorry Fred! I just couldn’t resist. :-) > But really, what word did you intend? I can’t figure it out! > Annette
No harm done. It was meant to express "to placard", a verb of Latin origin and still quite common in French (placarder) and as noun "placa" in Spanish. It means, placing warning signs. To me, it is not as far fetched as it sounds because I learned to read and write in Spanish. Fred
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"> G’day G’day Fred, > The calorific value of fats are almost twice that of carbs and > protein. That is pretty scary stuff. Still there is research out > there the suggests eating raw unsalted nuts does not lead to excess > calorie consumption. The traps appears to be sprung when fats are > combined with sugar. Then the appetite control mechanism do not > compensate by reducing calorie consumption at the next meal. > Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
Thanks Quentin, I’m glad to hear your affirmative take on nuts. As a T2, low carber, no medication, almonds are in almost every meal I eat, but not more than 15 at a time. In many ways they are the perfect food for diabetics. They pass all criteria:slow carb, plant protein, good fat and viscous fiber. Also, they are compact and non-messy to carry. I always take a bunch along when we go out or travel as a precaution against not finding suitable food. Almonds are also great for micro management of caloric intake. I fully agree with the dangers of over eating, the diabetics constant "mind over matter" struggle! Fred Henzi
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> > So how did you clever folk placate them? > 
> Annette. > Here in the West, some people have problems with words. Thanks, and I > promise to watch them words. > Fred Henzi
Sorry Fred! I just couldn’t resist. :-) But really, what word did you intend? I can’t figure it out! Annette – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Walnuts are better for you in many ways.. I eat peanuts as well and have no spiking problems but testing yourself is the only way to know.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi folks, > Are peanuts good protein or are they carbs. > I golf with my husband and was wondering if they would be good for me > to eat between meals. > thank you > Helen
Response:
> So how did you clever folk placate them? > > Annette.
Here in the West, some people have problems with words. Thanks, and I promise to watch them words. Fred Henzi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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This post not CC’d by email >It’s time to read labels if you are a diabetic. >Almonds are better, 5gr carb of which 4gr are good fiber per OZ, about 25 >almonds. They have lots of good fat calories, 170.
I spent month on sci.med debating the merit of various nuts. Almonds have several things going for them. They have an excellent ratio of tocopherols (Vit E family) to polyunsaturated fats. There fat content is mostly mono-unsaturated fat making it a good substitute for carbs. Replacing some carb with mono-unsaturated fat raises HDL without significantly affecting LDL. The substitution also reduces triglycerides. They are good sources of magnesium, calcium and fibre. — Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / / "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
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(snip) . Here in the West, roads with 10% and more grade are placated. > Fred Henzi
(snip) How did they do that? The roads in Australia are very angry. Especially if they are graded. They like to think that all roads are created equal, and don’t like being tested or scored. So how did you clever folk placate them? Annette.
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This post not CC’d by email – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi folks, > Are peanuts good protein or are they carbs. > I golf with my husband and was wondering if they would be good for me > to eat between meals. > thank you > Helen >It’s time to read labels if you are a diabetic. >Almonds are better, 5gr carb of which 4gr are good fiber per OZ, about 25 >almonds. They have lots of good fat calories, 170. Nuts of any kind are >serious food items, addictive, and can quickly wreck a diet. If you tell me >your weight I’ll calculate how many miles uphill you would have to walk to >burn 170 cal. It’s more than two, and there wouldn’t be much time left for >golfing. >Fred Henzi
G’day G’day Fred, The calorific value of fats are almost twice that of carbs and protein. That is pretty scary stuff. Still there is research out there the suggests eating raw unsalted nuts does not lead to excess calorie consumption. The traps appears to be sprung when fats are combined with sugar. Then the appetite control mechanism do not compensate by reducing calorie consumption at the next meal. — Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / / "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
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This post not CC’d by email > Are peanuts good protein or are they carbs. > I golf with my husband and was wondering if they would be good for me > to eat between meals. >The only real answer is to try some and use your meter. 100 grams of >peanuts (nearly a quarter-pound, which is quite a lot) has 19 grams of >carbohydrate, of which 9 grams is fiber. So you should be OK unless you >really pig out on them, but once again, use your meter as a guide.
A useful rule is to limit nuts (and faux nuts like peanuts) to the amount you can hide in your fist. One of the useful results of epidemiology is that people who eat nuts live longer. Most times when some food confers some advantage in reducing the risk from one disease it increase the risk from another and there is no net benefit to longevity. — Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / / "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
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> Thanks Fred,Almonds will make a nice change from Peanuts. > and I will use them in small quanties. > best regards > Helen ( My weight is 130lbs) <g>
OK Helen, a promise is a promise. A slender lady like you would have to walk 2 miles and 976 yards on a 10 % grade to burn 170 cal ( 1 OZ of peanuts = 30 nuts). This grade is fairly steep. Here in the West, roads with 10% and more grade are placated. You could also walk up a tower with 1958 steps or 1346 ft height. Again, here in the West we have the Seattle space needle which is 650 ft high. So, it would be twice up the tower for you, for others YMMV. I hope this illustrates the incredible amount of energy in nuts and the danger in overdoing it. Next time you take a flight and get one of them peanut bags, get two and consider it a meal. Fred Henzi
Response:
> Hi folks, > Are peanuts good protein or are they carbs. > I golf with my husband and was wondering if they would be good for me > to eat between meals. > thank you > Helen
It’s time to read labels if you are a diabetic. Almonds are better, 5gr carb of which 4gr are good fiber per OZ, about 25 almonds. They have lots of good fat calories, 170. Nuts of any kind are serious food items, addictive, and can quickly wreck a diet. If you tell me your weight I’ll calculate how many miles uphill you would have to walk to burn 170 cal. It’s more than two, and there wouldn’t be much time left for golfing. Fred Henzi
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> Hi folks, > Are peanuts good protein or are they carbs. > I golf with my husband and was wondering if they would be good for me > to eat between meals.
1/4 cup of peanuts has 16g fat, 8g carb, 2g fiber and 9g of protein. If you are overweight then they are not something you should eat very often. Otherwise, a limited portion would probably be okay…assuming your BG is in not high. You don’t seem to know much about nutrition. You should really make an appointment with a dietician who will come up with a diet plan for you. And get a book that lists various foods and their nutritional breakdown. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/
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This post not CC’d by email >Hi folks, > Are peanuts good protein or are they carbs. >I golf with my husband and was wondering if they would be good for me >to eat between meals. >thank you > Helen
G’day G’day Helen, It depends on how you react to peanuts. There is not simple answer to this one. Peanuts are one of the very best sources of biotin which is beneficial to diabetics. Chocolate and liver are the other outstanding sources. They are also a good source of Vit B3 (niacin). In fact there is quite a list of reasons to eat peanuts. Unfortunately there are also good reasons for some of us not to eat peanuts. An allergy screening test showed I had a food allergy to peanuts. Darn. That means no satay for me and Thai salads with lean meat served on salad would have fitted my diet beautifully. There are also some concerns about some peculiarities of the fatty acids in peanut. Can’t recall the details. If you do decide to eat peanuts buy the highest quality … every time. — Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / / "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
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> Are peanuts good protein or are they carbs. > I golf with my husband and was wondering if they would be good for me > to eat between meals.
The only real answer is to try some and use your meter. 100 grams of peanuts (nearly a quarter-pound, which is quite a lot) has 19 grams of carbohydrate, of which 9 grams is fiber. So you should be OK unless you really pig out on them, but once again, use your meter as a guide.
Response:
> > Are peanuts good protein or are they carbs. > I golf with my husband and was wondering if they would be good for me > to eat between meals. > The only real answer is to try some and use your meter. 100 grams of > peanuts (nearly a quarter-pound, which is quite a lot) has 19 grams of > carbohydrate, of which 9 grams is fiber. So you should be OK unless you
Also has nearly 50 grams of fat and 25 of protein, which makes a big difference for many people. I’ve found that I can _reduce_ the BG effect of a meal by adding natural peanut butter. As always, YMMV….. (And nearly half the fat is monounsaturated) — Wes Groleau http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau
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> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
Response:
Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
Response:
My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
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Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
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As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
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>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
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(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
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>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
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>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
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>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
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>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
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> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
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>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
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I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
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> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Response:
Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
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> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
Response:
As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
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>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
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Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
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>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
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> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
Response:
Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
Response:
My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
Response:
Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
Response:
As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
Response:
>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
Response:
I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
Response:
> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Response:
Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
Response:
> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
Response:
As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
Response:
Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
Response:
>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
Response:
> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
Response:
Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
Response:
My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
Response:
Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
Response:
As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
Response:
>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
Response:
I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
Response:
> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Response:
Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
Response:
> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
Response:
As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
Response:
Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
Response:
>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
Response:
> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
Response:
Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
Response:
My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
Response:
Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
Response:
As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
Response:
>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
Response:
I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
Response:
> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Response:
Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
Response:
> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
Response:
As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
Response:
Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
Response:
>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
Response:
> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
Response:
Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
Response:
My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
Response:
Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
Response:
As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
Response:
>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
Response:
I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
Response:
> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Response:
Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
Response:
> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
Response:
As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
Response:
Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
Response:
>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
Response:
> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
Response:
Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
Response:
My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
Response:
Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
Response:
As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
Response:
>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
Response:
I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
Response:
> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Response:
Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
Response:
> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
Response:
As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
Response:
Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
Response:
>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
Response:
> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
Response:
Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
Response:
My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
Response:
Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
Response:
As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
Response:
>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
Response:
I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
Response:
> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Response:
Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
Response:
> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
Response:
As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
Response:
Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
Response:
>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
Response:
> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
Response:
Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
Response:
My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
Response:
Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
Response:
As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
Response:
(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
Response:
>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
Response:
>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
Response:
> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
Response:
I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
Response:
> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Response:
Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
Response:
> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
Response:
As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
Response:
>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
Response:
Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
Response:
>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
Response:
> My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by > the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my > question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely > remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with > peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe > to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t > dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. > Shelly
Peanuts are good for treats but not a steady diet. With my ‘too she will get a peanut as a reward along with a "GOOD GIRL" and a scratch. As far as using shelled peanuts, well I think that it would take all the fun out of eating them. As I’m sure you know "toos love to chew and cracking open a peanut to get inside is more then just food it’s fun… Enjoy Natasha & Michael
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Thanks, your response is very helpful. Peanuts work well for training at our house –both husband and bird. We do have to be careful, if the aspergillosis doesn’t get them, the fat content might. How concerned should I be about the grocery shop peanut butter? I feed it to the kids because they like it so much. Give me a jar of Jif any day. Shelly
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My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. Shelly
Response:
>My ‘too loves peanuts. When he gets them, it’s because I’ve stopped by >the pet food store and gotten the aflatoxin free variety. Now my >question. What about human consumption grade peanuts. I seem to vaguely >remember from years ago, that aflatoxin was not much of a problem with >peanuts grown in the US. Can someone confirm or refute this. Is it safe >to give my ‘too some of my husbands unsalted unshelled peanuts (he hasn’t >dropped over dead yet–husband, not bird) Thanks for the info. >Shelly
I know a bit about aflatoxin because it’s one of the objects of my professional (i.e. human rather than bird-related) research. Aflatoxin is a toxic product of molds that grow well in peanuts and other grains like corn. Aflatoxin content of peanuts, peanut butter, etc. from growers in the US is tightly regulated, so these products are essentially safe. However, if you let peanuts sit around for a long time (or of they sat around a long time in the store), particularly in a humid environment or in unvented plastic bags, they may still develop the mold that produces aflatoxin. Until the mold contamination gets very bad, it is not likely that you could see it. Aflatoxicosis, i.e. acute aflatoxin poisoning, has been reported in turkeys and chickens where aflatoxin contaminated their feed. I don’t know whether psitticines are susceptible to it, but I would assume that they are just to be safe. On the other hand, unless peanuts or other mold-prone grains are a very large part of your bird’s (or your husband’s) diet, it is unlikely that he would eat enough to cause the acute reaction. Long-term exposure to small amounts of aflatoxin, though, is definitely bad for laboratory rats, probably for humans also, but I am unaware of any research on pet birds. Roasting peanuts does not destroy the aflatoxin, but fresh (i.e. unroasted peanuts) are more susceptible to mold because they have a higher moisture content. If you are careful about where you buy your peanuts, it is probably perfectly safe for your bird to eat them. Avoid getting peanuts from the bottom of the barrel or that have sat on the shelf for a long time. Also be careful about peanut butter that is ground for you at the store (a lot of health food stores do this). Often this peanut butter is made from peanuts that have sat around along time. In summary, there’s no reason to stop giving your bird or your husband peanuts, but practice safe shopping when buying them!
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Buy human grade raw peanuts, The other stuff isn’t fit for rats! Melinda
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As I said, watch the sodium content. Nathan wrote, >Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot >during a football game. The bird died the next day.
How many peanuts did he eat? >A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Melinda
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > > peanuts? > > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip> > http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the >reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. >If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and >it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t >remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref >about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has >mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
Aflatoxin (mycotoxin) is a fungi (or mold) which can contaminate improperly stored grains, seeds (nuts) (not just peanuts). This is what causes aspergillosis. Always make certain that you buy fresh seeds, etc. and store them properly once you get them home. Also make certain that the storage container(s), as well as the handling and measuring equipment, is properly sanitized. If in doubt about the freshness of the seeds, etc., DON’T feed to the birds. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
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>> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them >indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). >Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked >before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be >wrong! ,Sue
Sue’s reply makes sense to me as I’m almost certain that the peanuts found in seed mixes are roasted. However, dry roasted peanuts would contain less fat. Some species of birds require a high-fat diet (macaws, in particular); but not so with CAG’s. Our CAG loves peanuts, but to him cashews are to die for. Keeping the fat content in mind, offer only as a treat. Mary —- Mary Arnold Sparky’s home page is the place to go, If you want information on the grey Congo. http://www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html
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(CStern) writes: >Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, >cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium >iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the >time to do an assay on cuttlebone though.
You”re absolutely right. I should have specified "Iodized salt", and I don’t have a problem admitting it when I am wrong. I don’t provide Cuttlebone to my pet birds. I provide the mineral blocks because they are better than cuttlebone IMHO. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
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>Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid.
Not salt. Iodine. Iodized salt is one source. Theoretically, though, cuttlebone could contain its calcium deposits in the form of calcium iodide, and a cuttlebone would serve a dual purpose. I’ve never taken the time to do an assay on cuttlebone though. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
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>Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as >a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second >one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t >manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium >percentage like people food??
Actualy pet birds require a little salt to maintain a healthy thyroid. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel)
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>A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that >weighs only a pound or so.
Speaking of salt, my fiancee brought home a bag of Katee "Nutri-Puffs" as a treat for the birds. However when I looked at the ingrediants the second one was SALT!!! No way were they going to get those! Why don’t manufacturers of bird products have to label their products with a sodium percentage like people food?? Always read ingrediats carefully before giving it to you feathered friends. Cyndy
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>>I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease >expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy >aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this >reason. >nothing kills aflatoxin
Correct. Neither heat nor irradiation nor crystals will denature aflatoxins. Some types of toxins, like the poison produced by the botulinis sp. of bacteria, can be rendered harmless by cooking; but others, like aflatoxins and mycotoxins (the poisons produced by mushrooms) cannot. Chuck Stern <and Spike the ‘tiel, Tweety the budgie and Romeo the Eclectus> If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the precipitate
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> http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the > reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. > If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and > it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t > remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref > about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has > mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
I wish more people, especially experts, would give references like this.
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>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
Raw peanuts, especially the ‘animal’ quality sold to pet stores, may contain ‘aflatoxins’, a mold that is highly toxic to parrots. Never feed raw peanuts. Only feed unsalted, roasted peanuts, as the roasting destroys the mold. Regards, Jane
Response:
I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason. nothing kills aflatoxin
Response:
> > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or > roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter? > Peanuts are a legume <snip>
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/beans.html I can’t find the reference to legumes that I was looking for, but I did find this one. If I read this one correctly, then peanuts are an okay raw legume and it is only a few legumes which must be cooked before feeding. I can’t remember where I read the one about peanuts. I did find another ref about aflotoxin in peanuts, though, as at least one other person has mentioned in one of the arms of this thread. ,Sue
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Hi: I never give raw peanuts. Roasted Unsalted are probably the best. If you can only by raw you can roast them yourself in an oven but its easier to buy already roasted. mls – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? > Does it matter?
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> Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted > peanuts? > Does it matter?
Peanuts are a legume and legumes have an enzyme which make them indigestible, (I’m not sure if there’s a toxicity issue or not). Cooking (heat) destroys the enzyme, so all legumes should be cooked before feeding. This is my understanding of the topic, but I could be wrong! ,Sue
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As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! Melinda Hinton Avian Tropical Gardens
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>As an "amature expert" in avian care as well as natural health and >nutrition, I would have to say raw peanuts would be healthier, as all >enzymes and most vitamins are destroyed by cooking. However, as long as you >don’t feed a quanity of roasted peanuts, I see no harm. I would watch the >salt content of the roasted peanuts, though. High levels of sodium can be >as unhealthy for our feathered friends as it is for us! >Melinda Hinton >Avian Tropical Gardens
My Loluccan loves peanuts, but he will only eat them raw. He turns up his beak to roasted ones. Our avian vet told us of someone who fed salted peanuts to his parrot during a football game. The bird died the next day. A little bit of salt goes a very long way when it enters a body that weighs only a pound or so.
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Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted peanuts? Does it matter?
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>Does anyone know if it is better to give a CAG raw peanuts or roasted >peanuts? >Does it matter?
I think it does matter because of aflatoxin (a toxic factor produced by Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus), molds contaminating ground nut seedlings. Birds and other animals consuming infected nuts (peanuts) may die of aflatoxicosis. I’m not totally sure, as I’m no infectious disease expert, but common sense would indicate that perhaps roasting would destroy aflatoxin? At any rate, I feed my birds roasted nuts for exactly this reason.
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December 14, 2001
Question:
> Herb one thing to remember related to what Doug shared with you, his mixed > company are all in FLIGHTS, might ask him how big his flights are?
I think you just did. <g> A macaw > cage is one thing a flight can be something else. Have fun, slow and
easy. IF their pace is slow we will be slow. From what I’m seeing at this point it will take a while but unless they backslide they appear to be getting a little friendly. Thank you Herb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bob W > — > We have a couple of web sites, check them out have fun, > http://www.onemorebird.com/ > http://home.pacifier.com/~rivercst/index.html
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Herb one thing to remember related to what Doug shared with you, his mixed company are all in FLIGHTS, might ask him how big his flights are? A macaw cage is one thing a flight can be something else. Have fun, slow and easy. Bob W — We have a couple of web sites, check them out have fun, http://www.onemorebird.com/ http://home.pacifier.com/~rivercst/index.html
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> << Do you see a problem with using the play station and cage and switching > them? They seem to be getting along pretty well with that to this point.>> > The cage part may be the problem. > Depending on how long you had the scarlet, he may feel thats HIS cage. Then > here comes a BEAUTIFUL blue bird, that moves into his "house"
I understand where you are coming from but I get the feeling that our birds understand the house (our house) is their house. I really don’t see signs of love for the cage or being upset if they are in the cage or out of it. They seem happy either way. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have several birds as well, and my CAG, Izzy is VERY protective of her cage. > If my MSC2, Baby jumps over to Izzy’s cage, "feathers will fly". > My guys will "tolerate" each other if standing on me, (because mommy says so) > but to "share" a T-Stand, no way. Even my CAG’s, their 2 yrs apart, from the > same "parents", and I raised them both from 5 wks old, will have nothing to do > with each other. > You may have better success than I, and I know it can be done, (Lou Boyd has > several macaws, as well as Doug), but I certainly would NOT want to get between > those 2 beaks !! > Good luck with your 2 new feathered friends!
Thank you Dawn. Herb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ""Birds are like potato chips, betcha can’t have just one!"" > Dawn, Baby, Izzy, Gabby, Rio, & ~Pierre~ > Human- MSC2- CAG- CAG- B&G- & ~MOL~
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<< Do you see a problem with using the play station and cage and switching them? They seem to be getting along pretty well with that to this point.>> The cage part may be the problem. Depending on how long you had the scarlet, he may feel thats HIS cage. Then here comes a BEAUTIFUL blue bird, that moves into his "house" I have several birds as well, and my CAG, Izzy is VERY protective of her cage. If my MSC2, Baby jumps over to Izzy’s cage, "feathers will fly". My guys will "tolerate" each other if standing on me, (because mommy says so) but to "share" a T-Stand, no way. Even my CAG’s, their 2 yrs apart, from the same "parents", and I raised them both from 5 wks old, will have nothing to do with each other. You may have better success than I, and I know it can be done, (Lou Boyd has several macaws, as well as Doug), but I certainly would NOT want to get between those 2 beaks !! Good luck with your 2 new feathered friends! ""Birds are like potato chips, betcha can’t have just one!"" Dawn, Baby, Izzy, Gabby, Rio, & ~Pierre~ Human- MSC2- CAG- CAG- B&G- & ~MOL~
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Path: ashke > Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds > Organization: Primenet (602)416-7000 > Distribution: > : Several month ago we contacted a breeder about buying a Hyacinth Macaw. In > : the mean time we bought a Scarlet that has been living with us for the last > : 5 months. The Hyacinth took longer to wean so it was just picked up this > : last week. Both birds are about 10 month old. > Hey, welcome to the world of macaws. My understanding is that these are > your first birds? Or large birds?
Actually no. We have had African Grays several years ago. We shouldn’t have had them at that time in our lives as we worked 60 – 70 hours a week. We just couldn’t give them the time needed and when we realized that we found them VERY good homes. Now we have our own business so we feel we can devote the time needed. And so my advice is going to be oriented > towards someone that has kept large birds for less than a decade.
That would be us. > My understanding of your question was: will these guys be buddies and > companions and accept each other as well as us. They are both young and I > have high hopes that they will likely accept and be able to play safely > with each other over the next 50+ years of their lives. They’ll likely > still be friends when you and I are in the grave. (So please, start > thinking now about providing for them in your will, but that is another > lecture…:) )
Done – our baby sitters are our son and his wife and my granddaughter. > HOWEVER, I would NOT rush things. This could easily take months, or days, > or years. You’re dealing with two young birds who both are able of hurting > the other significantly. A vet bill or a permanently disfigured bird that > requires special treatment is a difficult burden to carry, so better safe > and patient than sorry. Remember, the scarlet has been there for a while > and no doubt is starting to feel the center of the universe. The Hyacinth > not only has to learn about you guys as his new companions, but the > scarlet and a new home, new feeding/sleeping/playing/activity schedule as > well. PLUS he’s at a stage of his life where he is ‘fledging’ and JUST > learning to explore and discover a new world. That is a LOT for a bird to > do. Your scarlet is in a similar position.
As stated by others the Hy is pretty laid back. The Scarlet – that is a different story. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You said each bird has its own cage? This is required for the bird’s > safety and security at this stage, as well as free access to food and > water without another bird being able to interfere. Even if the > breeders/sellers say these birds are fully weaned, please remember macaw > parents are seen with their offspring for a minimum of one year from the > season they were hatched in, to as long as three years later (so far, from > what has been seen. That was a scarlet pair as well.) In a complicated, > multi-fruiting, dense area that these birds must learn about, it takes a > long time for a scarlet to figure out what is fruiting/able to be eaten > where, what time of day and what time of year. In other words, these birds > still have poor eating skills and really need months and months of follow > up attention to make sure they are eating and selecting and actually > swallowing (and not just chewing up,) a balanced diet. So free access to > food without the fear of being pushed away or dominated is especially > important to a young bird the ages of yours.
The birds are getting a very balanced diet and the Scarlet is a hog. The Hy is getting better and today we are having Macadamia nuts flown in and have some other products that come from Brazil here later in the week. The Hy eats some things that the Scarlet can only dream about opening. We are watching the food intake and the stool to detect any thing out of the ordinary. > And personally, I would make sure the bird is completely comfortable, > eating, sleeping and listening to you (when you ask it to step up, for > example,) BEFORE beginning an introduction to another bird. Then begin to > allow closely supervised and limited playtime on a mutual playgym > together.
Just starting this. Our feeling is let it happen as fast as they want it but no forcing the issue. If one becomes too aggressive to the other, separate them. There > is ‘mild bickering’ which occurs between the tightest bonded pairs, which > is natural and common. HOWEVER, your job will be to distinguish this from > actual aggression. And if you don’t understand ‘body language’ of your > individual birds, it will be difficult to do so. Make sure you are > comfortable with your birds and you feel you understand them, in other > words, before you begin a slow introduction process. Just being in the > same room is likely enough for the next two weeks. Let the hyacinth settle > in a bit more, imo, before you start asking more from it.
Agreed. > I was curious if you knew the sexes?
They are BOTH females. This would definitely be important to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> know down the road. It wouldn’t be anything new if they were m/f and > decided to try and breed. In which case, they’ll likely loose the majority > of their pet value and be aggressive towards you (and this can happen with > any pair of birds, unless you remain a constant and kind force in their > lives, with lots of hands on attention.) Most people in the bird industry > do not believe in hybridizing and thus it would not be good to encourage > breeding activity. > Finally, I recommend that since these birds will be in your house for the > rest of your life, you do lots more reading about behavior management. > Others can chime in with their recommendations but here are mine: > The Large Macaws: Their care, breeding and conservation by Joanne Abramson > et al. (EXCELLENT book, every macaw owner should have it, imho. Can find > it in bookstores/amazon.com) > The Companion Parrot Handbook by Sally Blanchard (Excellent overview on > what to expect behaviorally from your bird from fledging to old age and > addresses how to avoid and discourage, or explain, many issues that owners > have challenges about like biting, screaming, aggression, and necessary > care issues. At amazon.com or www.petbirdreport.com) > The following are available at www.originalflyingmachine.com > Since your birds are young, I absolutely recommend a collection of > articles by Phoebe Linden. (Which I think are called ‘Abundantly Avian’.) > She has a LOT of interesting ideas about the stages a young bird > encounters from fledging to eating, activity and adolescence. > I also recommend Liz Wilson’s article collection called: Handbook of Avian > Articles. This covers just about everything Phoebe’s doesn’t, with a > special focus on issues that tend to bother most owners (my bird is > screaming, biting, afraid of everything, etc.)
Thank you for the leads. > Why am I recommending this information now when your bird doesn’t bite?
A Scarlet that doesn’t bite? <g> Or > doesn’t scream for three hours straight at 8-11am?
This is the Hy. We are working on it. She is better today than yesterday etc. Our Hy was at a "closed" aviary. We have a retail shop. She is learning the new life style. We are very pleased with her progress in a short time. She wants to feel sorry for herself occasionally but we are moving her into our lifestyle. She is happy. As preventative > medicine. Your birds are nice now, they’re handraised, but as they get > more accustomed to you, the new life, and each other, they’re definitely > going to start pushing boundries.
No kidding. <g> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For example, someone recently was commenting on how nippy and energetic > their scarlet was. A great solution is to ‘wear out’ that bird before you > even begin to handle it. Teach and encourage it to play, flap about, etc > etc. Ideas and suggestions like this are abundant in all the behavior > resources I listed above. And when you can read about them BEFORE you > encounter any ‘challenges’, then you’re prepared to come up with the best > solution in your situation, or at least have some ideas to start with. > Many people get rid of their birds because they become very frustrated > with behaviors that get out of hand. And it happens quickly. You have two > large long lived birds and I’d like to see them stay with you forever, and > so I just want to provide any resource possible that with maximize the > companionship and understanding of these intelligent animals. > And finally, I recommend the monthly or bi monthly publications of The > Original Flying Machine and the Pet Bird Report. Both have the latest > articles from great people like Phoebe, as well lots of other information. > Check out their website for free articles, resources and links. Both of > these magazines (and the above birds) have been a HUGE and consistent help > to me and I hope that you’ll give them a look. I am just a happy customer > and friend of these people and personally vouch for them. > You don’t need to do it all at once. Maybe read the free info on the > websites, check out Sally Blanchard’s book and digest that and move on > slowly through all the resources available to you. > Best of luck, if you wish to email me directly, use the YAHOO address > below, not the primenet one I’m posting from. There is a lot of knowledge > and experience here on r.p.b’s, but you have to digest it all, ask lots of > questions and make your own decisions.
Thank you for the time you took to share your knowledge. Herb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kelly Flynn
Response:
> I currently have the following mixed groups in the same flights or > cages: > Hyacinth (maybe 20 years old) > Scarlet ( about 14 years) > Miligold (6 years)
<snip> Is that confusing enough ? Doug Yikes! Someone that has more than pictures!! THANK YOU!! I was beginning to think that I was a Macaw KILLER or something. <g> I would also like to thank the people that sent me private emails that look a lot more like this one than some of the ones that I was seeing on the "group". We are in day 3 here and I really like what I’m seeing. I think what you are saying makes sense based on a VERY short example of the two birds being in the same house. You know your birds. One other benefit we can see so far is our Scarlet is a much better bird now that the Hy is in the house too. She used to be sweet some of the time. Now she is sweet almost ALL of the time. So far I like what I see but we are going to take it slow. Thank you again Doug and Linda and …… Herb
Response:
Path: ashke Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds Organization: Primenet (602)416-7000 Distribution:
: Several month ago we contacted a breeder about buying a Hyacinth Macaw. In : the mean time we bought a Scarlet that has been living with us for the last : 5 months. The Hyacinth took longer to wean so it was just picked up this : last week. Both birds are about 10 month old. Hey, welcome to the world of macaws. My understanding is that these are your first birds? Or large birds? And so my advice is going to be oriented towards someone that has kept large birds for less than a decade. My understanding of your question was: will these guys be buddies and companions and accept each other as well as us. They are both young and I have high hopes that they will likely accept and be able to play safely with each other over the next 50+ years of their lives. They’ll likely still be friends when you and I are in the grave. (So please, start thinking now about providing for them in your will, but that is another lecture…:) ) HOWEVER, I would NOT rush things. This could easily take months, or days, or years. You’re dealing with two young birds who both are able of hurting the other significantly. A vet bill or a permanently disfigured bird that requires special treatment is a difficult burden to carry, so better safe and patient than sorry. Remember, the scarlet has been there for a while and no doubt is starting to feel the center of the universe. The Hyacinth not only has to learn about you guys as his new companions, but the scarlet and a new home, new feeding/sleeping/playing/activity schedule as well. PLUS he’s at a stage of his life where he is ‘fledging’ and JUST learning to explore and discover a new world. That is a LOT for a bird to do. Your scarlet is in a similar position. You said each bird has its own cage? This is required for the bird’s safety and security at this stage, as well as free access to food and water without another bird being able to interfere. Even if the breeders/sellers say these birds are fully weaned, please remember macaw parents are seen with their offspring for a minimum of one year from the season they were hatched in, to as long as three years later (so far, from what has been seen. That was a scarlet pair as well.) In a complicated, multi-fruiting, dense area that these birds must learn about, it takes a long time for a scarlet to figure out what is fruiting/able to be eaten where, what time of day and what time of year. In other words, these birds still have poor eating skills and really need months and months of follow up attention to make sure they are eating and selecting and actually swallowing (and not just chewing up,) a balanced diet. So free access to food without the fear of being pushed away or dominated is especially important to a young bird the ages of yours. And personally, I would make sure the bird is completely comfortable, eating, sleeping and listening to you (when you ask it to step up, for example,) BEFORE beginning an introduction to another bird. Then begin to allow closely supervised and limited playtime on a mutual playgym together. If one becomes too aggressive to the other, seperate them. There is ‘mild bickering’ which occurs between the tightest bonded pairs, which is natural and common. HOWEVER, your job will be to distinguish this from actual aggression. And if you don’t understand ‘body language’ of your individual birds, it will be difficult to do so. Make sure you are comfortable with your birds and you feel you understand them, in other words, before you begin a slow introduction process. Just being in the same room is likely enough for the next two weeks. Let the hyacinth settle in a bit more, imo, before you start asking more from it. I was curious if you knew the sexes? This would definitely be important to know down the road. It wouldn’t be anything new if they were m/f and decided to try and breed. In which case, they’ll likely loose the majority of their pet value and be aggressive towards you (and this can happen with any pair of birds, unless you remain a constant and kind force in their lives, with lots of hands on attention.) Most people in the bird industry do not believe in hybridizing and thus it would not be good to encourage breeding activity. Finally, I recommend that since these birds will be in your house for the rest of your life, you do lots more reading about behavior management. Others can chime in with their recommendations but here are mine: The Large Macaws: Their care, breeding and conservation by Joanne Abramson et al. (EXCELLENT book, every macaw owner should have it, imho. Can find it in bookstores/amazon.com) The Companion Parrot Handbook by Sally Blanchard (Excellent overview on what to expect behaviorally from your bird from fledging to old age and addresses how to avoid and discourage, or explain, many issues that owners have challenges about like biting, screaming, aggression, and necessary care issues. At amazon.com or www.petbirdreport.com) The following are available at www.originalflyingmachine.com Since your birds are young, I absolutely recommend a collection of articles by Phoebe Linden. (Which I think are called ‘Abundantly Avian’.) She has a LOT of interesting ideas about the stages a young bird encounters from fledging to eating, activity and adolescence. I also recommend Liz Wilson’s article collection called: Handbook of Avian Articles. This covers just about everything Phoebe’s doesn’t, with a special focus on issues that tend to bother most owners (my bird is screaming, biting, afraid of everything, etc.) Why am I recommending this information now when your bird doesn’t bite? Or doesn’t scream for three hours straight at 8-11am? As preventative medicine. Your birds are nice now, they’re handraised, but as they get more accustomed to you, the new life, and each other, they’re definitely going to start pushing boundries. For example, someone recently was commenting on how nippy and energetic their scarlet was. A great solution is to ‘wear out’ that bird before you even begin to handle it. Teach and encourage it to play, flap about, etc etc. Ideas and suggestions like this are abundant in all the behavior resources I listed above. And when you can read about them BEFORE you encounter any ‘challenges’, then you’re prepared to come up with the best solution in your situation, or at least have some ideas to start with. Many people get rid of their birds because they become very frustrated with behaviors that get out of hand. And it happens quickly. You have two large long lived birds and I’d like to see them stay with you forever, and so I just want to provide any resource possible that with maximize the companionship and understanding of these intelligent animals. And finally, I recommend the monthly or bi monthly publications of The Original Flying Machine and the Pet Bird Report. Both have the latest articles from great people like Phoebe, as well lots of other information. Check out their website for free articles, resources and links. Both of these magazines (and the above birds) have been a HUGE and consistent help to me and I hope that you’ll give them a look. I am just a happy customer and friend of these people and personally vouch for them. You don’t need to do it all at once. Maybe read the free info on the websites, check out Sally Blanchard’s book and digest that and move on slowly through all the resources available to you. Best of luck, if you wish to email me directly, use the YAHOO address below, not the primenet one I’m posting from. There is a lot of knowledge and experience here on r.p.b’s, but you have to digest it all, ask lots of questions and make your own decisions. Kelly Flynn
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I currently have the following mixed groups in the same flights or cages: Hyacinth (maybe 20 years old) Scarlet ( about 14 years) Miligold (6 years) Group 2 Green winged (11 years) B&G (5 years) Military (6 years) Group 3 Greenwinged (17 months) Military (15 months) Group 4 Harlequin ( almost 3 years) B&G (almost 4 years) Pair Med Sulphur crested cockatoos (Hen is an older import, male about 9 years, domestic) Group 5 Severe macaw (4 years) CAG (import, at least 12 years) OW Amazon ( import, probably over 25) All of these groups get along famously, the two young macaws (group 3) were hand-raised together, and they "fight" all the time, but its a play ritual…wrestling with a lot of noise, nobody gets hurt. Kind of like puppies. The group 2 is relatively new – the B&G and military have been cage/flight mates for several years and get along fine, and still play like the babies now and then. I just added the GW (Sampson) to their flight last Saturday, and theres been no friction. He is kind of a loner that has been in a couple of different groups (once with 2 harrlequins and 3 B&Gs for nearly a year, with no problems). The current group have been in the show together and in visual contact with eachother for a few years, so I expected them to do fine because of their individual personalities – all are fairly passive. The severe/2 parrot species group have been together for about 3 years, they each have their own food bowls and favorite perches – none have shown any real aggression, the Congo seems to stay to himself. Group 4 – the macaws act like the cockatoos dont even exist. We have a couple of different feed bowls, but they all eat mainly out of the same one, but at different times. Group one is pretty peaceful, the scarlet and the miligold stay away from eachother at the feeders, both will chase the Hy away from the bowl by just looking at him, but never actually bite or touch him. The Hy is a just a Hy…laid back, and will wait his turn for the big bowl,even though there are several bowls around the flight. In Herbs case, the most likely scenario will have the scarlet pushing the HY around. Hy are so passive that I cant imagine him ever being the aggressor. Also a HY is no mental match for a Scarlet – He will be forever out-witted, and teased by the far more intelligent and agile scarlet. A Hyacinth is big, and pretty, and gentle, but he is not very bright in comparison to a scarlet (or even a GW, for that matter) Hy just want to sit back and enjoy themselves, and you cant get into much of a fight with a pacifist. Herbs guys will do fine together. BUT this is not to say that they don’t need seperate cages sometimes….it is good to provide the HY with "quiet time" when he gets a break from the more energetic scarlet. I would seperate them at night for this reason . I dont think you’ll have to worry about the HY hurting the scarlet, but the red bird will pester the purple bird endlessly when he is in a playful mood. Keep an eye on them to learn their play patterns….you’ll notice one will raise his foot almost in a "stop" gesture, when hes had enough tussling and playing…most macaws do this . It is important to really know your birds when you start mixing them…some macaws just dont like eachother, and some don’t like anybody.(we had a military male like that, but he is now doing ok in short play sessions with others) I have also noticed that hens tend to dislike other hens. Its easier to mix male and female, or male and male. And the macaws are generally easier to mix than parrots. I have never had any fights ever when mixing conures. But conures dont always mix with other species. My female senegals hate eachother, but males usually mix well. Amazons usually all get along except for the yellow napes, who appear to be sociopaths and maniacs,and completey unpredictable. I keep a close eye on evolving social dynamics within groups, things might become less friendly if two birds suddenly bond. Birds can live together for years without a true bond forming (being compatible is not "bonded") When an actual "bond" occurs, its unmistakable, and the pair will have to be seperated from the larger group because they will become aggressive toward every one in the flight at this point. Is that confusing enough ? Doug
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<The pictures you see in advertising are usually a collection of very <young birds and staged for the shot. < Photoshop is also a very useful tool for making the lion lie down with the lamb. Vicki — Family and Divorce Mediation Resources http://xcski.com/~mediator/
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> Do they peck each other or do they bite at the other’s feet etc? > When we first brought the Hy into the house you could see that the Scarlet > was not happy and wanted to go after her. Now after just 2+ days the Scarlet > is really a LOT better and seems more curious now. > Herb
Dear Herb: Considering the enormous power these 2 species have in their beaks, they could easily remove each other’s feet. Each bird is different. The slow approach is always best, but never turn your back. You have a lot at stake here. The pictures you see in advertising are usually a collection of very young birds and staged for the shot. There certainly can be friendships among birds. That may develop; it may not as well. Of course the Scarlet was put out by the newcomer; what’s in it for her? Happily, you are seeing a slow change toward interest and curiosity. I’m sure you will carefully take advantage of that. These are both very young birds. I’d say the chances are good that these two could become companions with your nurturing. The advice you have been given about each one having its own cage is good. I want my own bed, and I’d not be kind to the person who got to sleep in it every other night. Grrrrr. — Sincerely, Joanne If it’s right for you, then it’s right, . . . . . for you!!! Play – http://www.jobird.com Pay for Play – http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm Looking for Love? – http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm Available Now – http://www.jobird.com/available.htm
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Herb, I really think that you need to put both birds in separate cages for > the night. They feel more secure, and I have known Scarlets that are prone > to night frights (hearing something moving around in the dark, being > terrified of it) If the bird is on the playstand while you are asleep, and > he gets scared and flies off, Bad consequences could ensue. They will > probably eventually learn to tolerate each other, if not be good friends. > But, like most kinds of relationships, it will take time. And even when they > are friends, you may have to separate them from time to time, because even > the closest of birds can have disagreements occasionally. Good luck with > your babies, > Amanda > P.S. Dexter (YCM) would like to see pictures of your new birds. he loves > seeing photos of other macaws. If you get some on a website (try > photopoint), let us know.
Thank you Amanda. We are astronomers too so our bird/s get used to people walking around late at night and going to bed at different times but your point is well taken. As each hour goes by they seem to be more tolerant of each other and more curious. We are hoping for the best but we are going to wait a good long time. I will try to get some picture posted in a few days. They are REALLY cute. Herb
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Herb, I really think that you need to put both birds in separate cages for the night. They feel more secure, and I have known Scarlets that are prone to night frights (hearing something moving around in the dark, being terrified of it) If the bird is on the playstand while you are asleep, and he gets scared and flies off, Bad consequences could ensue. They will probably eventually learn to tolerate each other, if not be good friends. But, like most kinds of relationships, it will take time. And even when they are friends, you may have to separate them from time to time, because even the closest of birds can have disagreements occasionally. Good luck with your babies, Amanda P.S. Dexter (YCM) would like to see pictures of your new birds. he loves seeing photos of other macaws. If you get some on a website (try photopoint), let us know.
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Hey, when I first got the CAG that lives here I thought it would make a nice companion to my Nape. It has been several years and that is just not going to happen, at least not in physical proximity. They do talk together in hilarious conversations, and they yell and try to boss each other around, but as far as allowing them on the same perch – it ain’t gonna happen. The nape does pal around with the old cockatiel though. Sigh. You can pick your friends, and you can pick your birds, but you can’t pick your birds friends.
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> Hey, when I first got the CAG that lives here I thought it would make a > nice companion to my Nape. It has been several years and that is just > not going to happen, at least not in physical proximity. They do talk > together in hilarious conversations, and they yell and try to boss each > other around, but as far as allowing them on the same perch – it ain’t > gonna happen. The nape does pal around with the old cockatiel though. > Sigh. > You can pick your friends, and you can pick your birds, but you can’t > pick your birds friends.
Do they peck each other or do they bite at the other’s feet etc? When we first brought the Hy into the house you could see that the Scarlet was not happy and wanted to go after her. Now after just 2+ days the Scarlet is really a LOT better and seems more curious now. Herb
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> do you have them in the same room so they can get used to the fact that they > are around each other?
Yes we do. We are also taking them outside together and we switch which one we are holding and we are both feeding and caring for them etc. I find that if I have one bord caged and one loose, > there will be trouble. I let my BFA, the red masked conure, 2 tiels and the > alexandrine loose together in the sitting room and they all get along
fine. We do have (BTW) 2 of the largest Animal Environments Stainless cages and 2 of their largest play stations. If you have seen their cages they are quite large and open. Both birds seem to have no problem being in them or on the play stand. UPDATE – the Hy is VERY laid back and lovie – the Scarlet is just a young Scarlet and full of energy and a bit nippy. I’m told that their personalities are normal. > I let them loose after I have fed them so nobody is incline to hop into > someone elses cage to steal grub. The rules are simply that if someone has a > peck at anyone else, that bird gets put into a cage in the other room. > Because they live in the same room and are used to each other they do seem > to get along ok. I would never leave them loose without me being there > though.
We are in contact with both of the breeders we bought the birds from as well and we are getting tips from them on proper bird discipline. Your approach and theirs are similar. > Try 2 big cages in the same room for a couple of months, spend equal time > petting etc.
For us this would be 2 more cages and 2 more playstands. Doable but not what we would prefer. > When you take them out for exercise, do it one at a time and take the bird > out of the room with the cages. Then put the bird back and give the other > bird some time out in another room. When you feel comfortable and think they > might get on, allow them both out but stand by with a towel if there is any > sign of serious aggression, and put the aggressor into the cage and wheel > the cage into another room.
we are going to wait beyond when we feel it is safe and we will use your suggestion of having towels near by. Thank you. > It might work, but you will have to take things slowly, be prepared to stop > any aggression and understand that it may never be possible. > The first step as I see it, is another cage, in the same room, but far > enough apart that they can get used to one another without feeling > threatened.
Do you see a problem with using the play station and cage and switching them? They seem to be getting along pretty well with that to this point. I would like to thank you for taking the time to help us. This is the type of information and help I was hoping to receive. Herb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You may never be able to leave them alone together. We have three birds of > different "species" <G>, and they do not like each other. From what I have > seen it is pretty common. They interact with the humans but want nothing > to > do with other birds. > So… what are all these pictures I see of Macaws (all different) playing > together and preening each other etc.? > I have to believe there is a better way than saying it won’t happen and if > you have enough $$ to buy a Hy you can afford 2 cages etc. > I’m really looking for someone to tell me the right way to get them > together. I can see even after 2 days they are getting better. > If you have some constructive advice please share. > Thanks > Herb
I see pictures of African greys together, too… but I guarantee if I let some of *mine* get any where near each other I’d have dead or seriously injured birds. I have 18 birds of various species that have lived together in the same room for several years, each in their own separate cages, and they have NOT come to like each other any better with the passing of time. I know which birds to trust together and which ones not to. I’ve never tried to *force* any of them to become "friends." Judging by your reaction to some of the other respondents I don’t think you’re really looking for advice at all. I think you’re just determined to make these two birds get along and you want someone to agree with you and tell you you’re doing the right thing. Face the fact that, as Alex said, they may never get along well enough to be left together unsupervised. April’s advice was good, sound advice that could save you and your birds a LOT of grief. Buy a second cage. — Mama ~^~^~^~ Visit Mamabird’s Nest: <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> And My Photo Album at: <http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=442768> -To email me: change nest to net- "I was always a lover of soft winged things." Victor Hugo
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do you have them in the same room so they can get used to the fact that they are around each other? I find that if I have one bord caged and one loose, there will be trouble. I let my BFA, the red masked conure, 2 tiels and the alexandrine loose together in the sitting room and they all get along fine. I let them loose after I have fed them so nobody is incline to hop into someone elses cage to steal grub. The rules are simply that if someone has a peck at anyone else, that bird gets put into a cage in the other room. Because they live in the same room and are used to each other they do seem to get along ok. I would never leave them loose without me being there though. Try 2 big cages in the same room for a couple of months, spend equal time petting etc. When you take them out for exersise, do it one at a time and take the bird out of the room with the cages. Then put the bird back and give the other bird some time out in another room. When you feel comfortable and think they might get on, allow them both out but stand by with a towel if there is any sign of serious aggression, and put the aggressor into the cage and wheel the cage into another room. It might work, but you will have to take things slowly, be prepared to stop any aggression and understand that it may never be possible. The first step as I see it, is another cage, in the same room, but far enough apart that they can get used to one another without feeling threatened. —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t see where I said it can’t be done. I do see where I said you may > never be able to leave them alone. it sounds like you have made up your > mind > so here’s your advice. Shove them both in a cage and forget about it. > After > all you have seen pictures so your all set. > — > For e-mail > Thank you for your wonderful, insightful input Alex. It is greatly > appreciated. > Herb
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> I don’t see where I said it can’t be done. I do see where I said you may > never be able to leave them alone. it sounds like you have made up your mind > so here’s your advice. Shove them both in a cage and forget about it. After > all you have seen pictures so your all set. > — > For e-mail
Thank you for your wonderful, insightful input Alex. It is greatly appreciated. Herb
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I don’t see where I said it can’t be done. I do see where I said you may never be able to leave them alone. it sounds like you have made up your mind so here’s your advice. Shove them both in a cage and forget about it. After all you have seen pictures so your all set. — For e-mail
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You may never be able to leave them alone together. We have three birds of > different "species" <G>, and they do not like each other. From what I have > seen it is pretty common. They interact with the humans but want nothing > to > do with other birds. > — > So… what are all these pictures I see of Macaws (all different) playing > together and preening each other etc.? > I have to believe there is a better way than saying it won’t happen and if > you have enough $$ to buy a Hy you can afford 2 cages etc. > I’m really looking for someone to tell me the right way to get them > together. I can see even after 2 days they are getting better. > If you have some constructive advice please share. > Thanks > Herb
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Doug Cook, calling Doug Cook. Hey he is the Macaw, getting along with, expert! Bob W — We have a couple of web sites, check them out have fun, http://www.onemorebird.com/ http://home.pacifier.com/~rivercst/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > So… what are all these pictures I see of Macaws (all different) playing > together and preening each other etc.? > I have to believe there is a better way than saying it won’t happen and if > you have enough $$ to buy a Hy you can afford 2 cages etc. > I’m really looking for someone to tell me the right way to get them > together. I can see even after 2 days they are getting better. > If you have some constructive advice please share. > Thanks > Herb
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> You may never be able to leave them alone together. We have three birds of > different "species" <G>, and they do not like each other. From what I have > seen it is pretty common. They interact with the humans but want nothing to > do with other birds. > —
So… what are all these pictures I see of Macaws (all different) playing together and preening each other etc.? I have to believe there is a better way than saying it won’t happen and if you have enough $$ to buy a Hy you can afford 2 cages etc. I’m really looking for someone to tell me the right way to get them together. I can see even after 2 days they are getting better. If you have some constructive advice please share. Thanks Herb
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You may never be able to leave them alone together. We have three birds of different "species" <G>, and they do not like each other. From what I have seen it is pretty common. They interact with the humans but want nothing to do with other birds. — For e-mail
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Several month ago we contacted a breeder about buying a Hyacinth Macaw. In > the mean time we bought a Scarlet that has been living with us for the last > 5 months. The Hyacinth took longer to wean so it was just picked up this > last week. Both birds are about 10 month old. > The Scarlet is not liking the new bird in the house and wants to nip at the > Hy. The Hy is SO BIG that we are concerned that if the Scarlet does > something that provokes the Hy it could do permanent damage to the Scarlet. > We are keeping them separate and close to each other for now and hope that > they will start getting along in a few days/weeks. We change the places they > sleep and play periodically during the day and change them each evening. One > gets the cage for the night and the other gets the play stand and then the > next night we switch them. We are fortunate in that we own our own business > sot the birds go to work with us and then home together so we are always > with them. > My question. Are we doing this right or are we too worried or….. > Thanks > Herb
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No you’re not doing things right. Each bird needs their own cage, their own safe home base. Would you want your bed changed around every night? If you have a bird sleeping on a play stand it’s not only not safe for the bird, you may wake up to a big surprise. You may find the bird has climbed or flopped down and destroyed your house. Possibly hurting or killing the bird in the mean time. The bigger bird may also jump down, climb on the outside of the cage and attack the scarlet. The scarlet will have no where to escape. If you can afford a hyacinth you can afford a cage for it. Several month ago we contacted a breeder about buying a Hyacinth Macaw. In the mean time we bought a Scarlet that has been living with us for the last 5 months. The Hyacinth took longer to wean so it was just picked up this last week. Both birds are about 10 month old. The Scarlet is not liking the new bird in the house and wants to nip at the Hy. The Hy is SO BIG that we are concerned that if the Scarlet does something that provokes the Hy it could do permanent damage to the Scarlet. We are keeping them separate and close to each other for now and hope that they will start getting along in a few days/weeks. We change the places they sleep and play periodically during the day and change them each evening. One gets the cage for the night and the other gets the play stand and then the next night we switch them. We are fortunate in that we own our own business sot the birds go to work with us and then home together so we are always with them. My question. Are we doing this right or are we too worried or….. Thanks Herb *Catch you on the flipside* Left Handers Unite! Don’t sell Out!
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Herb, can not answer for the Macaws as I have nearly everything but, LOL. I do have a diverse flock who do not play with each other, they each have their own territory, personal space, cages, and playstands. As we have everything from Peachboy my M-Too to Pacific parrotlets we do have to watch them fairly close. But as long as we respect their space as being theirs they seem to do well. It might be that your birds will never be "buddies", if they have their own "things" hey enjoy the hell out of them. I like you have the advantage of self employment so we haul a few birds to the office when I work. Once they learn to play independently we have little or no problem. Bob W — We have a couple of web sites, check them out have fun, http://www.onemorebird.com/ http://home.pacifier.com/~rivercst/index.html
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Several month ago we contacted a breeder about buying a Hyacinth Macaw. In > the mean time we bought a Scarlet that has been living with us for the last > 5 months. The Hyacinth took longer to wean so it was just picked up this > last week. Both birds are about 10 month old. > The Scarlet is not liking the new bird in the house and wants to nip at the > Hy. The Hy is SO BIG that we are concerned that if the Scarlet does > something that provokes the Hy it could do permanent damage to the Scarlet. > We are keeping them separate and close to each other for now and hope that > they will start getting along in a few days/weeks. We change the places they > sleep and play periodically during the day and change them each evening. One > gets the cage for the night and the other gets the play stand and then the > next night we switch them. We are fortunate in that we own our own business > sot the birds go to work with us and then home together so we are always > with them. > My question. Are we doing this right or are we too worried or….. > Thanks > Herb
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Several month ago we contacted a breeder about buying a Hyacinth Macaw. In the mean time we bought a Scarlet that has been living with us for the last 5 months. The Hyacinth took longer to wean so it was just picked up this last week. Both birds are about 10 month old. The Scarlet is not liking the new bird in the house and wants to nip at the Hy. The Hy is SO BIG that we are concerned that if the Scarlet does something that provokes the Hy it could do permanent damage to the Scarlet. We are keeping them separate and close to each other for now and hope that they will start getting along in a few days/weeks. We change the places they sleep and play periodically during the day and change them each evening. One gets the cage for the night and the other gets the play stand and then the next night we switch them. We are fortunate in that we own our own business sot the birds go to work with us and then home together so we are always with them. My question. Are we doing this right or are we too worried or….. Thanks Herb
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July 8, 2001
I’m not sure who’s behavior would be modified tho! oooooo he was so >: precious! Back later! >Hi Dee, >I second the "thanks for doing your research first!" I am sure whomever >you fall in love with will have a good home. As for the fingernails, >younger birds (in my limited experience,) seem more fascinated to chew >them, I wonder if it is like an irresistable feather sheath for them? But >it seems once they’ve had a chance to explore it, they get bored and move >on 
Brooke Ps. Vicki, I’m sorry you have had such a bad experience with your GCC. :-( 
. >Dee