Pet Bird Food | Birdie Pets

Pellets or Seeds?

Question:

We feed about like you do. The one thing that quite often gets left out of these discussions is that pet birds don’t get anywhere the exercise wild birds get. They don’t need as high a fat diet because they don’t expend lots of energy in just living. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <This is a hot issue with many people. I for one have always looked at it > <form the point that the birds were doing just fine before we decided to keep > <them as pets. If the birds will eat them fine, if they do not want them I > <would not make a point of trying to force them to. Give them a varied diet, > <and they will be healthy and happy with it. > I don’t want to start an argument here, but wild birds have shorter > lifespans and far less healthy lives than our pet birds. The wild > bird’s diet is not ideal (and we won’t even talk about parasites and > disease). Any wild animal in its normal environment will do well > enough, but flood, fire and drought don’t affect our pets. Wild > animals eat what they can find, and it might not be exactly what they > need. > My birds get pellets (which most of them love) *and* good quality seed > *and* vegetables. Now and then a millet spray, and other food on an > occasional basis. Pet birds fed a variety of foods (not only their > wild diet) live years longer than wild birds. Their diet in the wild > is a necessary starting point for determining what they need to eat in > captivity, but we shouldn’t let it limit us in making better choices. > Vicki > — > Family and Divorce Mediation Resources > http://xcski.com/~mediator/

Response:

We feed our B&G pellets, because he was weaned onto them. I have no problem with them, it’s just that some people get really gung ho about them. With our first B&G he was raised on seed, we tried pellets he was not interested. Our Vet was hell bent that he "needed" pellets. I like her a lot, but on this I felt she was wrong. I was not willing to force him to eat them. In the wild birds suffer from predators and disease they are protected from with us. Look at how many people have come here over the years talking about a Tiel that lived over 20 years, on seed. The people who have posted these acted like they were surprised the bird lived that long on that diet. If your birds will eat them, great. If not I would not feel the need to force them. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <This is a hot issue with many people. I for one have always looked at it > <form the point that the birds were doing just fine before we decided to keep > <them as pets. If the birds will eat them fine, if they do not want them I > <would not make a point of trying to force them to. Give them a varied diet, > <and they will be healthy and happy with it. > I don’t want to start an argument here, but wild birds have shorter > lifespans and far less healthy lives than our pet birds. The wild > bird’s diet is not ideal (and we won’t even talk about parasites and > disease). Any wild animal in its normal environment will do well > enough, but flood, fire and drought don’t affect our pets. Wild > animals eat what they can find, and it might not be exactly what they > need. > My birds get pellets (which most of them love) *and* good quality seed > *and* vegetables. Now and then a millet spray, and other food on an > occasional basis. Pet birds fed a variety of foods (not only their > wild diet) live years longer than wild birds. Their diet in the wild > is a necessary starting point for determining what they need to eat in > captivity, but we shouldn’t let it limit us in making better choices. > Vicki > — > Family and Divorce Mediation Resources > http://xcski.com/~mediator/

Response:

Chris, just a thought, after you handfeed for a while, when you are setting out a bit of "big" bird food for them, why not give them a bit of choice. I keep seed, veggies, and pellets (appropriate sized for the bird of course) available to my "weaning birds", and a bit of millet of course. They pick and choose. Bob W – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi > I’m soon going to start hand raising my 3 little Tiels as i was > wondering if anyone here as had experience with starting them in > pellets? The parents won’t touch the pellets but i’d like to feed them > to the weaned chicks (once they are weaned that is). Are pellets to > hard? Should i stick to seeds? > Thanks > Chris > — > Chris Nolan > Personal Web site: > www.geocities.com/b55cdn

Response:

<This is a hot issue with many people. I for one have always looked at it <form the point that the birds were doing just fine before we decided to keep <them as pets. If the birds will eat them fine, if they do not want them I <would not make a point of trying to force them to. Give them a varied diet, <and they will be healthy and happy with it. I don’t want to start an argument here, but wild birds have shorter lifespans and far less healthy lives than our pet birds. The wild bird’s diet is not ideal (and we won’t even talk about parasites and disease). Any wild animal in its normal environment will do well enough, but flood, fire and drought don’t affect our pets. Wild animals eat what they can find, and it might not be exactly what they need. My birds get pellets (which most of them love) *and* good quality seed *and* vegetables. Now and then a millet spray, and other food on an occasional basis. Pet birds fed a variety of foods (not only their wild diet) live years longer than wild birds. Their diet in the wild is a necessary starting point for determining what they need to eat in captivity, but we shouldn’t let it limit us in making better choices. Vicki — Family and Divorce Mediation Resources http://xcski.com/~mediator/

Response:

This is a hot issue with many people. I for one have always looked at it form the point that the birds were doing just fine before we decided to keep them as pets. If the birds will eat them fine, if they do not want them I would not make a point of trying to force them to. Give them a varied diet, and they will be healthy and happy with it. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > I’m soon going to start hand raising my 3 little Tiels as i was > wondering if anyone here as had experience with starting them in > pellets? The parents won’t touch the pellets but i’d like to feed them > to the weaned chicks (once they are weaned that is). Are pellets to > hard? Should i stick to seeds? > Thanks > Chris > — > Chris Nolan > Personal Web site: > www.geocities.com/b55cdn

Response:

Hi I’m soon going to start hand raising my 3 little Tiels as i was wondering if anyone here as had experience with starting them in pellets? The parents won’t touch the pellets but i’d like to feed them to the weaned chicks (once they are weaned that is). Are pellets to hard? Should i stick to seeds? Thanks Chris — Chris Nolan Personal Web site: www.geocities.com/b55cdn

Response:

I would stick to seeds. It is what the parents will be feeding them and I find it easy to wean them using millet sprays. Buy the best quality and the freshest seed you can and also introduce fresh food too.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > I’m soon going to start hand raising my 3 little Tiels as i was > wondering if anyone here as had experience with starting them in > pellets? The parents won’t touch the pellets but i’d like to feed them > to the weaned chicks (once they are weaned that is). Are pellets to > hard? Should i stick to seeds? > Thanks > Chris > — > Chris Nolan > Personal Web site: > www.geocities.com/b55cdn

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Response:

? about keeping water clean

Question:

<< There will be four feet separating them this way. If your birds cage is such that they can toss pellets if the water, and you can’t be there to change it, you may want to consider another form of food.>> ummm, four feet away isn’t enough!!!! I have Rio’s cage set up that way as well, pellets in one bowl, seed & nuts in the other (on the right side), and his water bowl all the way on the other side of the cage. Needless to say, Rio carries his pellets to the water bowl to make "soup" His wood blocks go into the water bowl as well. I guess I’m just destined to change his water several times a day (the slave that I am !!) ""Birds are like potato chips, betcha can’t have just one!"" Dawn, Baby, Izzy, Gabby, Rio, & ~Pierre~ Human- MSC2- CAG- CAG- B&G- & ~MOL~

Response:

Yea, seems like i’ve read somewhere (probably in one of these pet bird newsgroups) that any pellet that is wetted could have bacteria growth after a few hours…just like any fresh foods. I had been giving Chico (my baby quaker) moistened pellets to get him to start eating them easier. Last night i quit adding the water and he’s eating them dry good. (i am very proud of him…hehe) They are too small for him to drag to his water bottle.

Response:

>This is going to be one of those FWIW, things, but I got a response from >Zupreem today. I printed out these posts and asked them if there was any >truth to all this. They totally ducked the question, and said you should get >rid of any wet food in four hours, especially in warm climates. The way she >answered me makes it look like something has certainly happened all right. I >guess for now I can rearrange the way we have our Macaws cage set up. I will >put his food at one end and water at the other. There will be four feet >separating them this way. If your birds cage is such that they can toss >pellets if the water, and you can’t be there to change it, you may want to >consider another form of food. I put a call in to our Vet, I will be curious >to see if she has heard anything about all this. >–

All moist foods are subject to bacteria growth, after a short period of time. Here are several articles mentioning that fact. http://www.avianavenue.com/infocenter/pellets.html http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/1442/tiel2.html http://www.ddc.com/~kjohnson/nutritin.htm Regards

Response:

This is going to be one of those FWIW, things, but I got a response from Zupreem today. I printed out these posts and asked them if there was any truth to all this. They totally ducked the question, and said you should get rid of any wet food in four hours, especially in warm climates. The way she answered me makes it look like something has certainly happened all right. I guess for now I can rearrange the way we have our Macaws cage set up. I will put his food at one end and water at the other. There will be four feet separating them this way. If your birds cage is such that they can toss pellets if the water, and you can’t be there to change it, you may want to consider another form of food. I put a call in to our Vet, I will be curious to see if she has heard anything about all this. — For E-mail remove the "NS"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Alex – > You are correct, there is no "4 hour warning" on the bag….but here IS > the warning about removing moistened food… > and heres the "rest of the story" on the balance of the post.: > A parrot trainer in Georgia recently had two macaws get severe bacterial > infections within a few days of eachother, and both died. The bacteria > was identical in both birds, and was also cultured from the bag of > pellets he was using. Conversations between the bird owner, his Vet, and > Zu-Preem ensued. At this point the spokesperson (fo r Zu-Preem > stated that , in warm climates, you must cahnge your water every four > hours….just like Alex, the Vet noticed the moist food warning, but > nothing about 4 hour water changes…..Zu-Preems reply…"There wasn’t > enough room on the bag". When asked why a printed warning card was not > just placed INSIDE of the bag, the ZP rep explained that "people don’t > like notices in the bags". I expect somebodies lawyer took notice at > this point…. > Anyhow, this is getting a lot of "circulation" in the zoo world right > now. I’m not taking any sides on the issue, but figured a warning that > allowing food to contaminate water is no better than letting poop > contaiminate it. > Doug

Response:

writes:>2 – Use a water bottle. My TAG uses a water bottle. I first put a plastic water bottle in his cage. He pecked a hole in it in one day. I bought a glass one. He worked on it for a couple of days, gave up, and shredded the plastic mount, dropping the bottle to the bottom of the cage. He then perched on it and waited for me, with a look of triumph on his face. He now uses a glass water bottle with steel mounting. I’ve bought some chain and a combination lock, just in case. Mike

Response:

Alex – You are correct, there is no "4 hour warning" on the bag….but here IS the warning about removing moistened food… and heres the "rest of the story" on the balance of the post.: A parrot trainer in Georgia recently had two macaws get severe bacterial infections within a few days of eachother, and both died. The bacteria was identical in both birds, and was also cultured from the bag of pellets he was using. Conversations between the bird owner, his Vet, and Zu-Preem ensued. At this point the spokesperson (fo r Zu-Preem stated that , in warm climates, you must cahnge your water every four hours….just like Alex, the Vet noticed the moist food warning, but nothing about 4 hour water changes…..Zu-Preems reply…"There wasn’t enough room on the bag". When asked why a printed warning card was not just placed INSIDE of the bag, the ZP rep explained that "people don’t like notices in the bags". I expect somebodies lawyer took notice at this point…. Anyhow, this is getting a lot of "circulation" in the zoo world right now. I’m not taking any sides on the issue, but figured a warning that allowing food to contaminate water is no better than letting poop contaiminate it. I use some bottles and some bowls, depending on the "tablle manners" of the particular bird. I know exactly what you are talking about with the birds dumping the bottles while playing on the cage…..we need to invent a "bottle guad" holder that we can place the bottle INSIDE of, and lock it in . There are waterers that function like that now, but to clean/fill them. you have to remove them from the cage, which is too much hassle for some people. We need a waterer with an easily-changed resevoir…..because there aint many people who have the time for 4 hour water changes. Doug

Response:

This is what got me a little worried about this. Our Macaw, and his brother both did this at the store where we bought them. They warned us to check the bottle for clogging because they would push food against it to wet it. Seems like the bacteria would be alive and well in the neck of the bottle then, and be able to migrate up into the water above? It will be interesting to see what Zupreem has to say. I’m going to send them all this in writing to, I want to see what kind of answer I get. — For E-mail remove the "NS"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The ONLY problem I have with water bottles is blocking. Several of my > birds take their dry food to the spout to wet it, I’ve only had 1 get > blocked from that (but I check them several times a day now)…but my > little greencheek conure Chuckie gurges on his and feeds it. He’s > constantly stuffing food – fresh and gurged – up the spout and blocking the > water flow. And when I take the top off to wash it (twice a day) the smell > just about knocks me over. But…when he has a dish of water he bathes and > poops and puts food in it and it’s trashed within an hour. (BTW, Chuckie > is "one of those birds" who fouls EVERYTHING he touches – lol!) > I don’t think it’s just Zupreem pellets that "feed" the bacteria and > encourage it to propogate in water…anything that’s full of sugars and > vitamins will do that. > owly > After reading this I got a little concerned since our B&G was weaned > onto Zupreem. I got the bag out and there is no warning, of bacteria, > but it does say if the food is moistened, or if it becomes wet it should > not be left for more than 4 hours. It says you can help a bird accept > their food by moistening it with diluted fruit juice. I tried to e-mail > them but their e-mail system did not work. They have a # listed to their > corporate office 1-800-345-4767, but they are closed till monday. I will > give them a call on monday, but for now I would not worry too much if > your feeding Zupreem. > The water bottles can work very well once a bird gets used to them. > Our Macaw was raised with one, and we bought one for him when we brought > him home. Problem was he kept going around the other side of the cage, > taking it off, and dropping it on the floor. Became a game with him, so > I gave up. <G>. For smaller birds or birds kept in the cage they should > work fine. > Re: ? about keeping water clean > Besides changing the water when its full of poop, it is also important > to do so when your birds toss feed pellets in the water, too. According > to a Zu-Preem spokesperson, soaked or submerged pellets start producing > bacteria in about two hours…and in hot climates can produce deadly > levels in about four hours-they advise changing the water EVERY 4 HOURS > when using their product….and I would think that this bacteria > problemwhould apply to ALL pellet brands, and even many soft veggies > etc. Clean water is vital, and if you have "one of those birds" that > habitually fouls his water, a water bottle is a wise idea. If you reject > the water bottle, try to place the water bowl and food bowl as far apart > as possible (but some birds will carry their food and toss it in their > water, any how, <G>) Changing the water is one of those "endless chores" > that go with keeping birds, theres probably no perfect solution > Doug

Response:

<< When asked why a printed warning card was not just placed INSIDE of the bag, the ZP rep explained that "people don’t like notices in the bags".>> I’m sure if the "notice" was printed on the back of a coupon INSIDE the bag, people wouldn’t mind a bit !! ""Birds are like potato chips, betcha can’t have just one!"" Dawn, Baby, Izzy, Gabby, Rio, & ~Pierre~ Human- MSC2- CAG- CAG- B&G- & ~MOL~

Response:

> Had to switch him back to a water dish > Why don’t you use a container with a small surface area?

Good idea–was one of the options I had considered. > (Quote cascades are evil).

Quote cascades?

Response:

Aha. I KNEW there was something wrong when I was composing that post. Thanks for the clarification. John

>> (Quote cascades are evil). > Quote cascades? > Look at your earlier post. A top-post, followed by a series of every > previously quoted post in the thread. > Jack > — > aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ > * If you post a followup, -DO NOT- email me a copy of it! * > Fun photo contest: http://home.dal.net/jam/kimva_photo.html

Besides the plugging (which my fids do now & then), another problem I have experienced with water bottles: Have to make sure the bird is actually drinking out of it. My conures took to their bottle with no effort at all when I first converted them but my quaker wouldn’t go near his. Had to switch him back to a water dish just to make sure he would drink. Funny thing about that guy tho…he’ll drink out of it if I’m holding it for him. Seems to love it too. Makes me wonder if I shouldn’t remount one in his cage and give it a go again. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The ONLY problem I have with water bottles is blocking. Several of my > birds take their dry food to the spout to wet it, I’ve only had 1 get > blocked from that (but I check them several times a day now)…but my > little greencheek conure Chuckie gurges on his and feeds it. He’s > constantly stuffing food – fresh and gurged – up the spout and blocking the > water flow. And when I take the top off to wash it (twice a day) the smell > just about knocks me over. But…when he has a dish of water he bathes and > poops and puts food in it and it’s trashed within an hour. (BTW, Chuckie > is "one of those birds" who fouls EVERYTHING he touches – lol!) > I don’t think it’s just Zupreem pellets that "feed" the bacteria and > encourage it to propogate in water…anything that’s full of sugars and > vitamins will do that. > owly > After reading this I got a little concerned since our B&G was weaned > onto Zupreem. I got the bag out and there is no warning, of bacteria, > but it does say if the food is moistened, or if it becomes wet it should > not be left for more than 4 hours. It says you can help a bird accept > their food by moistening it with diluted fruit juice. I tried to e-mail > them but their e-mail system did not work. They have a # listed to their > corporate office 1-800-345-4767, but they are closed till monday. I will > give them a call on monday, but for now I would not worry too much if > your feeding Zupreem. > The water bottles can work very well once a bird gets used to them. > Our Macaw was raised with one, and we bought one for him when we brought > him home. Problem was he kept going around the other side of the cage, > taking it off, and dropping it on the floor. Became a game with him, so > I gave up. <G>. For smaller birds or birds kept in the cage they should > work fine. > Re: ? about keeping water clean > Besides changing the water when its full of poop, it is also important > to do so when your birds toss feed pellets in the water, too. According > to a Zu-Preem spokesperson, soaked or submerged pellets start producing > bacteria in about two hours…and in hot climates can produce deadly > levels in about four hours-they advise changing the water EVERY 4 HOURS > when using their product….and I would think that this bacteria > problemwhould apply to ALL pellet brands, and even many soft veggies > etc. Clean water is vital, and if you have "one of those birds" that > habitually fouls his water, a water bottle is a wise idea. If you reject > the water bottle, try to place the water bowl and food bowl as far apart > as possible (but some birds will carry their food and toss it in their > water, any how, <G>) Changing the water is one of those "endless chores" > that go with keeping birds, theres probably no perfect solution > Doug —– Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 11:45 PM > The ONLY problem I have with water bottles is blocking. Several of my > birds take their dry food to the spout to wet it, I’ve only had 1 get > blocked from that (but I check them several times a day now)…but my > little greencheek conure Chuckie gurges on his and feeds it. He’s > constantly stuffing food – fresh and gurged – up the spout and blocking the > water flow. And when I take the top off to wash it (twice a day) the smell > just about knocks me over. But…when he has a dish of water he bathes and > poops and puts food in it and it’s trashed within an hour. (BTW, Chuckie > is "one of those birds" who fouls EVERYTHING he touches – lol!) > I don’t think it’s just Zupreem pellets that "feed" the bacteria and > encourage it to propogate in water…anything that’s full of sugars and > vitamins will do that. > owly > After reading this I got a little concerned since our B&G was weaned > onto Zupreem. I got the bag out and there is no warning, of bacteria, > but it does say if the food is moistened, or if it becomes wet it should > not be left for more than 4 hours. It says you can help a bird accept > their food by moistening it with diluted fruit juice. I tried to e-mail > them but their e-mail system did not work. They have a # listed to their > corporate office 1-800-345-4767, but they are closed till monday. I will > give them a call on monday, but for now I would not worry too much if > your feeding Zupreem. > The water bottles can work very well once a bird gets used to them. > Our Macaw was raised with one, and we bought one for him when we brought > him home. Problem was he kept going around the other side of the cage, > taking it off, and dropping it on the floor. Became a game with him, so > I gave up. <G>. For smaller birds or birds kept in the cage they should > work fine. > Re: ? about keeping water clean > Besides changing the water when its full of poop, it is also important > to do so when your birds toss feed pellets in the water, too. According > to a Zu-Preem spokesperson, soaked or submerged pellets start producing > bacteria in about two hours…and in hot climates can produce deadly > levels in about four hours-they advise changing the water EVERY 4 HOURS > when using their product….and I would think that this bacteria > problemwhould apply to ALL pellet brands, and even many soft veggies > etc. Clean water is vital, and if you have "one of those birds" that > habitually fouls his water, a water bottle is a wise idea. If you reject > the water bottle, try to place the water bowl and food bowl as far apart > as possible (but some birds will carry their food and toss it in their > water, any how, <G>) Changing the water is one of those "endless chores" > that go with keeping birds, theres probably no perfect solution > Doug

Response:

Our life with birds changed dramatically when we started using water bottles in the cages. It gives us an extra dish for "snackies" and keeps the water SO much cleaner and fresher. It’s still important to change it but when you dump it…it’s only leftover water….which I dump in the sink…not the yucky, gunky stuff I used to have to dump in the toilet. Count me as one who LOVES water bottles. We recently adopted a two and a half year old parrotlet who was new to water bottles so I positioned it near the water dish and when I saw that he was drinking from it I changed the water dish to a food dish and went with just the bottle. You can still provide a container for bathing…but as soon as the splashing has finished…take it out so they can dry off for the day.

Response:

Besides the plugging (which my fids do now & then), another problem I have experienced with water bottles: Have to make sure the bird is actually drinking out of it. My conures took to their bottle with no effort at all when I first converted them but my quaker wouldn’t go near his. Had to switch him back to a water dish just to make sure he would drink. Funny thing about that guy tho…he’ll drink out of it if I’m holding it for him. Seems to love it too. Makes me wonder if I shouldn’t remount one in his cage and give it a go again. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The ONLY problem I have with water bottles is blocking. Several of my > birds take their dry food to the spout to wet it, I’ve only had 1 get > blocked from that (but I check them several times a day now)…but my > little greencheek conure Chuckie gurges on his and feeds it. He’s > constantly stuffing food – fresh and gurged – up the spout and blocking the > water flow. And when I take the top off to wash it (twice a day) the smell > just about knocks me over. But…when he has a dish of water he bathes and > poops and puts food in it and it’s trashed within an hour. (BTW, Chuckie > is "one of those birds" who fouls EVERYTHING he touches – lol!) > I don’t think it’s just Zupreem pellets that "feed" the bacteria and > encourage it to propogate in water…anything that’s full of sugars and > vitamins will do that. > owly > After reading this I got a little concerned since our B&G was weaned > onto Zupreem. I got the bag out and there is no warning, of bacteria, > but it does say if the food is moistened, or if it becomes wet it should > not be left for more than 4 hours. It says you can help a bird accept > their food by moistening it with diluted fruit juice. I tried to e-mail > them but their e-mail system did not work. They have a # listed to their > corporate office 1-800-345-4767, but they are closed till monday. I will > give them a call on monday, but for now I would not worry too much if > your feeding Zupreem. > The water bottles can work very well once a bird gets used to them. > Our Macaw was raised with one, and we bought one for him when we brought > him home. Problem was he kept going around the other side of the cage, > taking it off, and dropping it on the floor. Became a game with him, so > I gave up. <G>. For smaller birds or birds kept in the cage they should > work fine. > Re: ? about keeping water clean > Besides changing the water when its full of poop, it is also important > to do so when your birds toss feed pellets in the water, too. According > to a Zu-Preem spokesperson, soaked or submerged pellets start producing > bacteria in about two hours…and in hot climates can produce deadly > levels in about four hours-they advise changing the water EVERY 4 HOURS > when using their product….and I would think that this bacteria > problemwhould apply to ALL pellet brands, and even many soft veggies > etc. Clean water is vital, and if you have "one of those birds" that > habitually fouls his water, a water bottle is a wise idea. If you reject > the water bottle, try to place the water bowl and food bowl as far apart > as possible (but some birds will carry their food and toss it in their > water, any how, <G>) Changing the water is one of those "endless chores" > that go with keeping birds, theres probably no perfect solution > Doug

Response:

The ONLY problem I have with water bottles is blocking. Several of my birds take their dry food to the spout to wet it, I’ve only had 1 get blocked from that (but I check them several times a day now)…but my little greencheek conure Chuckie gurges on his and feeds it. He’s constantly stuffing food – fresh and gurged – up the spout and blocking the water flow. And when I take the top off to wash it (twice a day) the smell just about knocks me over. But…when he has a dish of water he bathes and poops and puts food in it and it’s trashed within an hour. (BTW, Chuckie is "one of those birds" who fouls EVERYTHING he touches – lol!) I don’t think it’s just Zupreem pellets that "feed" the bacteria and encourage it to propogate in water…anything that’s full of sugars and vitamins will do that. owly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After reading this I got a little concerned since our B&G was weaned > onto Zupreem. I got the bag out and there is no warning, of bacteria, > but it does say if the food is moistened, or if it becomes wet it should > not be left for more than 4 hours. It says you can help a bird accept > their food by moistening it with diluted fruit juice. I tried to e-mail > them but their e-mail system did not work. They have a # listed to their > corporate office 1-800-345-4767, but they are closed till monday. I will > give them a call on monday, but for now I would not worry too much if > your feeding Zupreem. > The water bottles can work very well once a bird gets used to them. > Our Macaw was raised with one, and we bought one for him when we brought > him home. Problem was he kept going around the other side of the cage, > taking it off, and dropping it on the floor. Became a game with him, so > I gave up. <G>. For smaller birds or birds kept in the cage they should > work fine. > Re: ? about keeping water clean > Besides changing the water when its full of poop, it is also important > to do so when your birds toss feed pellets in the water, too. According > to a Zu-Preem spokesperson, soaked or submerged pellets start producing > bacteria in about two hours…and in hot climates can produce deadly > levels in about four hours-they advise changing the water EVERY 4 HOURS > when using their product….and I would think that this bacteria > problemwhould apply to ALL pellet brands, and even many soft veggies > etc. Clean water is vital, and if you have "one of those birds" that > habitually fouls his water, a water bottle is a wise idea. If you reject > the water bottle, try to place the water bowl and food bowl as far apart > as possible (but some birds will carry their food and toss it in their > water, any how, <G>) Changing the water is one of those "endless chores" > that go with keeping birds, theres probably no perfect solution > Doug

Response:

After reading this I got a little concerned since our B&G was weaned onto Zupreem. I got the bag out and there is no warning, of bacteria, but it does say if the food is moistened, or if it becomes wet it should not be left for more than 4 hours. It says you can help a bird accept their food by moistening it with diluted fruit juice. I tried to e-mail them but their e-mail system did not work. They have a # listed to their corporate office 1-800-345-4767, but they are closed till monday. I will give them a call on monday, but for now I would not worry too much if your feeding Zupreem. The water bottles can work very well once a bird gets used to them. Our Macaw was raised with one, and we bought one for him when we brought him home. Problem was he kept going around the other side of the cage, taking it off, and dropping it on the floor. Became a game with him, so I gave up. <G>. For smaller birds or birds kept in the cage they should work fine. Re: ? about keeping water clean Besides changing the water when its full of poop, it is also important to do so when your birds toss feed pellets in the water, too. According to a Zu-Preem spokesperson, soaked or submerged pellets start producing bacteria in about two hours…and in hot climates can produce deadly levels in about four hours-they advise changing the water EVERY 4 HOURS when using their product….and I would think that this bacteria problemwhould apply to ALL pellet brands, and even many soft veggies etc. Clean water is vital, and if you have "one of those birds" that habitually fouls his water, a water bottle is a wise idea. If you reject the water bottle, try to place the water bowl and food bowl as far apart as possible (but some birds will carry their food and toss it in their water, any how, <G>) Changing the water is one of those "endless chores" that go with keeping birds, theres probably no perfect solution Doug

Response:

> are there perches positioned above the water pots? If so move them. The > water with fresh poop in shouldn,t smell bad enough to make you gag. Change > it twice a day.

In addition to twice a day (normal changings), I would change it any time you see poop in it. More often than once just after I put a bowl of nice fresh clean water, the bird squeezes yet another one…guess where….yup, back into the bowl….so I change it again. Not good lettin’ em drink poopy water. But sometimes I swear they do it on purpose… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> O.K., my "Teils are driving me NUTS! Even though they have covered > dishes, > they are always managing to poop in their water. They have a bird bath as > well, but they don’t poop in that! I don’t know how they manage to poop > in > their dishes, unless they take the time to turn around, get their butt > feathers in the thing and do it on purpose. My "keets, on the other hand, > w/open cups, NEVER poop in their water. The finches are the same as the > "Teils w/covered cups as well. Any way to get them to stop doing this? > Of > course, everyone gets fresh water (and scrubbed cups) daily, but sometimes > it is so bad that the smell of dumping that water out will make me gag! > Bobbie

Response:

Besides changing the water when its full of poop, it is also important to do so when your birds toss feed pellets in the water, too. According to a Zu-Preem spokesperson, soaked or submerged pellets start producing bacteria in about two hours…and in hot climates can produce deadly levels in about four hours-they advise changing the water EVERY 4 HOURS when using their product….and I would think that this bacteria problemwhould apply to ALL pellet brands, and even many soft veggies etc. Clean water is vital, and if you have "one of those birds" that habitually fouls his water, a water bottle is a wise idea. If you reject the water bottle, try to place the water bowl and food bowl as far apart as possible (but some birds will carry their food and toss it in their water, any how, <G>) Changing the water is one of those "endless chores" that go with keeping birds, theres probably no perfect solution Doug

Response:

O.K., my "Teils are driving me NUTS! Even though they have covered dishes, they are always managing to poop in their water. They have a bird bath as well, but they don’t poop in that! I don’t know how they manage to poop in their dishes, unless they take the time to turn around, get their butt feathers in the thing and do it on purpose. My "keets, on the other hand, w/open cups, NEVER poop in their water. The finches are the same as the "Teils w/covered cups as well. Any way to get them to stop doing this? Of course, everyone gets fresh water (and scrubbed cups) daily, but sometimes it is so bad that the smell of dumping that water out will make me gag! Bobbie

Response:

are there perches positioned above the water pots? If so move them. The water with fresh poop in shouldn,t smell bad enough to make you gag. Change it twice a day. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> O.K., my "Teils are driving me NUTS! Even though they have covered dishes, > they are always managing to poop in their water. They have a bird bath as > well, but they don’t poop in that! I don’t know how they manage to poop in > their dishes, unless they take the time to turn around, get their butt > feathers in the thing and do it on purpose. My "keets, on the other hand, > w/open cups, NEVER poop in their water. The finches are the same as the > "Teils w/covered cups as well. Any way to get them to stop doing this? Of > course, everyone gets fresh water (and scrubbed cups) daily, but sometimes > it is so bad that the smell of dumping that water out will make me gag! > Bobbie

Response:

Letter to Animal Planet

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just sent the following note to the Animal Planet TV network: > I came across one of your funny-pets-on-video programs the other day > and found scenes of parakeets interacting with cats and dogs. One bird > was nibbling on a cat’s whiskers. Another was sneaking under a dog’s > jaws and snatching bits of food out the dog’s bowl while the dog was > ravenously eating. While the birds were cute and amusing, the > situations were horrifying. > [...] > Good for you, Harlan! That show upsets me so much I won’t even watch it > anymore. > — > Mama

I’m with you Mama! The first time I saw the episodes he mentioned, I was flabbergasted that they’d air it. I wonder if those birds are still alive! Laurie

Response:

> I just sent the following note to the Animal Planet TV network: > I came across one of your funny-pets-on-video programs the other day > and found scenes of parakeets interacting with cats and dogs. One bird > was nibbling on a cat’s whiskers. Another was sneaking under a dog’s > jaws and snatching bits of food out the dog’s bowl while the dog was > ravenously eating. While the birds were cute and amusing, the > situations were horrifying.

[...] Good for you, Harlan! That show upsets me so much I won’t even watch it anymore. — Mama ~^~^~^~ Visit Mamabird’s Nest: <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> And My Photo Album at: <http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=442768> -To email me: change nest to net- "I was always a lover of soft winged things." Victor Hugo

Response:

I just sent the following note to the Animal Planet TV network: I came across one of your funny-pets-on-video programs the other day and found scenes of parakeets interacting with cats and dogs. One bird was nibbling on a cat’s whiskers. Another was sneaking under a dog’s jaws and snatching bits of food out the dog’s bowl while the dog was ravenously eating. While the birds were cute and amusing, the situations were horrifying. How can one take the chance of allowing a beloved pet bird to come within reach of much larger, carniverous animals like cats and dogs? This is a recipe for tragedy. Surely you realize this isn’t hypothetical, either. These sad tales are reported from time to time. I knew one family whose cockatiel was eaten by their cocker spaniel. By presenting these videos on the air for the entertainment of your viewers, you have probably given some the idea of trying to socialize birds with cats and dogs, and have given the impression that it is safe and fun to do. This is shocking coming from a TV network that ought to be devoted to the safety of pets. — Harlan Messinger There are no Zs in my actual e-mail address.

Response:

Help with weaning

Question:

Ringnecks tend to wean longer than most of the smaller birds. (Little body, big bird attitude) One ringneck at my old workplace would eat his normal dry allotment, but "had" to have his nitey nite hand feeding. They are definately different. I love mine! A cockatiel has spotted me at a local store and is begging me to take him home….sigh…spring is here…hahah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding > since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except > the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different > kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of > to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at > night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. > He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. > I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the > night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem > weaning a bird before. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Christi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding > since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except > the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different > kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of > to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at > night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. > He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. > I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the > night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem > weaning a bird before. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Christi > christi — how is you baby ringneck doing? margaret

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding > since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except > the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different > kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of > to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at > night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. > He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. > I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the > night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem > weaning a bird before. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Christi > christi — how is you baby ringneck doing? margaret

Give your baby a small amount of formula in the morning to stimulate his desire to eat. Put some fruit loops in his dry food container. Play with him on a towel with fruit loops scattered around him. Put one to his beak; he will lick it and realize it is good. Sometimes at first, I grind one between my fingers and let the baby touch a tongue to it to make the connection. It seems that once they make the brain connection between things they see (colorful helps) and taste, the process begins. My cockatoos don’t even notice food in their cage until 8 weeks. I’m not sure how the indian ringnecks mature. Greys are faster then cockatoos. I hope this is helpful. — Sincerely, Joanne If it’s right for you, then it’s right, . . . . . for you!!! Play – http://www.jobird.com Pay for Play – http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm Looking for Love? – http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm

Response:

Just finished five Ringnecks, I mixed up leftover formula with a bit of oatmeal and keets seeds, they would nibble a bit at first but then started sucking it down, cut back formula added finely chopped fruit, by the way stick a piece of banana in the peel in the cage clipped to the side, score the banana so they can get to it….. Bob W — Go look at the greatest birds on this planet, A few new things! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding > > since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except > > the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different > > kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of > > to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at > > night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. > > He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. > > I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the > > night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem > > weaning a bird before. > > Does anyone have any suggestions? > > Christi > > christi — how is you baby ringneck doing? margaret >Give your baby a small amount of formula in the morning to stimulate his >desire to eat. Put some fruit loops in his dry food container. Play >with him on a towel with fruit loops scattered around him. Put one to >his beak; he will lick it and realize it is good. Sometimes at first, I >grind one between my fingers and let the baby touch a tongue to it to >make the connection. It seems that once they make the brain connection >between things they see (colorful helps) and taste, the process begins. >My cockatoos don’t even notice food in their cage until 8 weeks. I’m >not sure how the indian ringnecks mature. Greys are faster then >cockatoos. >I hope this is helpful. >– >Sincerely, >Joanne >If it’s right for you, then it’s right, . . . . . for you!!! >Play – http://www.jobird.com >Pay for Play – http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm >Looking for Love? – http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm

Response:

Well after reading the responses, I have decided to continue to handfeed him until he is ready to wean himself. I still leave all the pellets, seeds, etc. in the cage for him to nibble on and he seems to try but he still wants the formula. I am handfeeding him in the morning and at night. I will just wait till he wants to stop. Thanks for all the help. Christi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding > since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except > the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different > kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of > to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at > night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. > He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. > I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the > night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem > weaning a bird before. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Christi > christi — how is you baby ringneck doing? margaret

Response:

I’ve only weaned out 1 ringneck( lots of other birds),so take this for what it’s worth, but 19 wks. seems a little early to be pushing weaning. Have to go back & check records for sure, but it seems to me he was still on 2 feeds at that stage & weaned himself suddenly at about 14 or 15 weeks. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding > since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except > the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different > kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of > to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at > night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. > He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. > I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the > night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem > weaning a bird before. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Christi

Response:

: I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding : since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except : the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different : Does anyone have any suggestions? (First I have to ask: where is the person who sold you this bird? They should be helping you finish the feeding and weaning of the bird. If you do not feel you can go and ask them questions and get wise answers and thought and help in return, I would not buy anything from them in the future. What is happening is not your fault, nor your bird’s fault. It is where this bird came from, and you should have been provided with better assistence on weaning and the early socialization of this young but soon to be lifetime companion.) Then I answer your question with– Yes– read Phoebe Linden’s articles on Abundant Weaning. (Her article collection can be purchased at either: www.petbirdreport.com or www.originalflyingmachine.com ) I realize you can’t do this overnight, but her articles on weaning (and the subsequent years of adolescence, and socializing, and so much more,) are worth their weight in gold, IMO. (If you have a good bird store nearby, they MAY have her articles in the store, OR back issues of the Pet Bird Report, that contain her articles, but it is probably not likely.) So until you can get your hands on those, I would take a deep breath and just make sure this bird is getting PLENTY to eat AND DRINK everyday. (Remember that formula gives the bird a lot of water, and unless you see him drink frequently, he probably is not getting enough on his own, much like the food that he is refusing.) If you have a scale, use it, to track his weight every morning before his first feeding. Even if he is obviously overweight for his size, I would still be concerned if I saw a slow or fast loss of weight. This is probably the only quantitative way you can track his ‘health’, and is an excellent investment to make if you do not have one already, since you can use it weekly for the rest of his life. Many unknown tumors or diseases have been caught early because owners noticed unusual fluctuations in a bird’s weight. I can talk more about that if you want, later. What I would be concerned about most, is making sure that he is getting the food and water each day he needs. I would feed the regular amounts at his regular times, and NOT WITHHOLD. And I’m going to cheat on this and refer to many articles which have been written on ‘weaning traumas’ by individuals who decided to force wean a bird at a certain age or time. It is honestly too intensive a subject to go into here. BUT ALSO, many experienced breeders feel a baby parrot eats best, and learns to eat best when he is NOT hungry. If you were starving, would you be paying attention to anything a teacher ‘mimed’ in front of you or wrote on the blackboard? Unlikely. "Feeling hungry" can cause a lot of anxiety and especially if you suddenly AREN’T fed when you are Sooooo hungry. It can break a ‘trust’ to not be given food when you have so abundently in the past…remember, this bird has NO CLUE what you want from him. You have to be patient and take it at this individual’s pace. So once he is getting enough food and water, you will want to do two more major things: 1) Handfeed him the foods you want to teach him to eat on his own 2) Teach him to eat on his own out of his own bowl where he picks up and swallows food (not just plays with it.) Re: 1) — Good things to try (all warmed at proper temperature warm water: Scenic Handweaning Pellets, Mango, banana, soaked zupreem biscuits, papaya, cooked pasta, cooked squash are all recommended and easy to hold, and for your bird to swallow. Chicks get ‘chunkier’ regurgitation from their parents at this age, and it is normal for them to be digesting larger pieces of real food. Experiment and expand, but focus on nutritious options. (The scenic handweaning pellets are awesome and a great transition to pellet based diets. Please check out their website if you want more ‘quick’ info. www.marionzoological.com or Phoebe’s website at: www.www.santabarbarabirdfarm.com) Re: 2)– This will be your long road, but I would start by eating the same food he eats or you want him to eat, right in his face, (non threatening) and really show your enjoyment,a nd hold up pieces for him to chew as well. This is how I get my birds to eat anything (or at least try it once or twice.) I agree with what others have said: SHOWING your bird how to eat will be one of the best ways to get them to start chewing the food (and we can hope, swallowing some in the process.) Yes, you are taking a step or two back, but I think you must under these circumstances where the bird has simply stopped progressing. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Phoebe’s articles. There is no way I can communicate all you need to know about these important early years of your bird’s life, and so much that happens now, will be reflected on later in his good or poor habits and behaviors. A little investment in doing things ‘right’ now, will pay off BIG time later on. I promise. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me at the email address provided below, and I will be happy to go into as much detail as I can. But– Get’ Phoebe’s Articles! (Called ‘Abundantly Avian’, fyi.) Kelly Flynn

Response:

I never forced any babies to wean, they will all do it in time. Some take longer than others. It’s like children walking or potty training, you need to let them do it when they are ready. I would suggest just keep offering foods and keep making sure the bird is eating. You will have to supplement with handfeeding, but that’s OK. Spread out the feedings and before you offer formula, offer foods instead. If the bird is hungry he’ll want to try it.You should sample some of the offered foods and make a big fuss and then offer it to the bird. Birds are naturally curious and you can play on that behavior. You could try mixing in foods with the formula or offer soft foods like warm rice or pasta with soft fruits and veggies. Be creative. You can use bottled baby food to entice the bird to try new tastes. When I first brought my Alex home all she wanted was handfeeding formula and warm peas and pecans. Now, she’ll eat everything. It’s easier to use warm foods at first since they are more likely to like them. Each bird is different. I’ve had some take a very long time and some just happened overnight. There is no hard and steadfast rule as to exactly what day they should wean and talk and etc. Have faith, be creative, and have some fun trying new things. You might find some new foods for yourselves in the process. (We’ve discovered carambola and persimmons, dandelion greens and daikon.) Angela

Response:

> I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding > since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except > the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different > kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of > to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at > night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. > He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. > I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the > night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem > weaning a bird before. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Christi > ringnecks can take as long as twelve weeks to wean. do not force him to

wean before his ready . when he is ready he will decline to be fed when offered the food . i have been raising rings for quite some time. they are all the same .they are alot like the larger parrot species. more like newborn humans. i raised soft billed birds and hookbills , rings are definitely a trip. do not deny him feedings . hang in there it should only be a few more weeks.are you weighing him regularly ? his weight will remain steady and then drop just before he stops accepting formula. offer fun food banana,parsley .ect. to encourage him to eat . i hope this helps . margaret

Response:

I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem weaning a bird before. Does anyone have any suggestions? Christi

Response:

It is like breastfeeding – some birds need to be fed longer than others, and maybe it is more emotional than nutritional. I would keep doing what you are doing. One of these days he is going to turn his nose up and you and your formula and it is sad. But then, you have experienced that with other baby birds. Me – I have limited experience. Good luck. Andee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have a 10 week old indian ringneck baby that I have been hand feeding > since it was 2 weeks old. I cannot get this baby to eat anything except > the hand feeding formula. I have put out seeds, pellets (3 different > kinds), fresh veggies, toasted oats and everything else I can think of > to try to get it to eat on its own. I have cut him down to 1 feeding at > night. When I get home from work, I can tell he hasn’t eaten anything. > He hangs on the cage and makes his little horn noises until I feed him. > I have refused to feed him until just before I put him to bed for the > night. I have hand fed lots of birds and have not had this much problem > weaning a bird before. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Christi

Response:

Black and orange bird. What Kind????

Question:

Yea well you sound real sweet too. ROTFLOL! Well gee thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take >big bites. Moderation is for monks. >Lazarus Long

Response:

>I don’t know maybe i’m reading too little. I see you keep referring to >Chuck as "she" and "her". Do you know something we don’t?

Sorry didn’t look under his/her tail >As to MBD as I understand it this is the result of having birds over >time and deciding you need more after you already know what you are >into. Chuck’s original post did not seem to say anything about previous >bird experience.

Neither does mine but does that stop me from asking a question or do I have to meet the minimal standard requirements and meet up to the pecking order in here to get a simple basic answer to a question. Or failing to meet the minimum do I get flamed? >I don’t have time to read every post here so has he/she >been around here for a while so Mick should have known?

Does it matter? Which proves my point that this group wants no part of newbies. Is not interested in advancing the avian hobby. And is only here to pat the "regulars" on the back. > As for being afraid to ask a question because of being attacked, well >sure Chuck sounds like a very timid fellow all right.

Yea well you sound real sweet too. ;o] >As for Mick coming off as perfect I must have missed that. I don’t see >it in this thread anyway.

Probably because your face ran into his back side as he stopped suddenly.

Response:

I don’t know maybe i’m reading too little. I see you keep referring to Chuck as "she" and "her". Do you know something we don’t? As to MBD as I understand it this is the result of having birds over time and deciding you need more after you already know what you are into. Chuck’s original post did not seem to say anything about previous bird experience. I don’t have time to read every post here so has he/she been around here for a while so Mick should have known? As for being afraid to ask a question because of being attacked, well sure Chuck sounds like a very timid fellow all right. As for Mick coming off as perfect I must have missed that. I don’t see it in this thread anyway. Maybe I read too little into the original post or Mick read too much, but I think alot was assumed. Exactly, Thank you DC. This could be a good place to ask questions before buying. If I was new to the hobby and came here, read some of the post, I wouldn’t dare ask a question. So with Micks warning, and Jennifers ID’ing, (and Chuck doing his research) maybe such a fiasco has been avoided this time. This time maybe, too bad you have to watch what ya say here or get attacked. I think his point is that Mick had to start somewhere and most likely made a few mistakes along the way. Why not share the knowledge of the mistakes instead of putting on the mask of perfection. Tell me no one in here has bought a bird on impulse and I’ll shut up. Whats the term "MBD"?

Response:

>> Hey Mick, > Go and blow it out your ass!! >That’s nice.

Hey Mick you jump down my throat without knowing me and I jump right back. From the sound of your first response you sound like a pretentious animal rights activist to me. > People like you kill me..I guess I should have > stated that yes infact I do have other birds > and I do have many exotic reptiles and > amphibians > All impulse buys?

Not a single one. I did research on all the species I have and have invested thousands on the proper environments for them.. but then why the hell should I have to prove myself and my husbandry techniques to a fool like you. > but I did not think that I would have to go into > that to find out what kind of bird I was looking > at. >You wouldn’t if all you wanted was to find out what kind of bird it was, >but you said that you wanted to obtain one without knowing what it was.

You know my original statement may have been worded wrong for your likings, ohh great MICK should I go back and restate my original question for you?? > By the way MICK how many dead birds do > you have in your freezer or buried in your > back yard!! > Chuck >Freezer: 7 >Buried: I lost count at around 78.

All impuse bought?? Chuck

Response:

> I see by this quoted response what kind of person we are dealing with >here. Looks like someone who never grew up but he wants a pet bird.

Grew up just fine!! And , yes I am interested in birds. >When >he was still at home I wonder if Mommy and Daddy just handed him >everything he said he wanted?

No, I get what I would like on my own. Here is another example of someone stating that they know all about everyone. > While Mick may have come off a little gruff I can certainly see his >point when I read the question.

Yes, he did and now so are you. The wording my have been off on my original statement so should I go back and change it for you also. >Even more so when I see the answer as to >what kind of bird this was. As I understand these birds don’t eat "pet >bird seed" you buy at the local K-mart

Only have one animal that eats store bought food. There we go assuming again that only you and Mick can give proper care to certain animals. >We too often see people run out >and buy a bird because they saw it thought it was cool and just "want >one". Then a few weeks later they either have a dead bird or a behavior >problem that they have no idea how to handle.

I agree but do not bash everyone who asks a question. I have had the urge to do so also when it comes to certain animals but if you dig a little deeper before you come crashing down on someone you may find out that their intentions are good and true. > The first time I ate at the Rain Forest Cafe we stopped out front to >watch them showing off some beautiful birds. When I showed particular >interest in a B&G Macaw and told the handler we were wanting to get one >she gave me a speech about not just running out an

SNIP Again with the asumption that we ALL impulse buy. Get off you soapbox. Chuck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Mick has a valid point – the impulse to "buy" seems a bit premature when >you don’t even know the name of the species >( and it would follow that if you don’t know the species, you must not >know about its care, etc.) >Anyhow , with the species indentified , Chuck can study up on the >species and its care requirements, and decide of he can provide that >level of care…..then start shopping around for >a breeder. >It wouldnt make much sense to buy a bird with the specialized diet of a >lory, bring it home and then ask "what does it eat?"…. >unfortunately, we see this scenario way too often. So with Micks >warning, and Jennifers ID’ing, (and Chuck doing his research) maybe such >a fiasco has been avoided this time. >But I think Chucks stupid remarks about "dead birds buried in Micks >backyard" pretty much mark him (Chuck) as an low-functioning >microcephalic . >Doug

Nice to hear from someone who can put everything in perspective. Regards

Response:

> Mick has a valid point – the impulse to "buy" seems a bit premature when > you don’t even know the name of the species > ( and it would follow that if you don’t know the species, you must not > know about its care, etc.)

Maybe I read too little into the original post or Mick read too much, but I think alot was assumed. > Anyhow , with the species indentified , Chuck can study up on the > species and its care requirements, and decide of he can provide that > level of care…..then start shopping around for > a breeder.

Exactly, Thank you DC. This could be a good place to ask questions before buying. If I was new to the hobby and came here, read some of the post, I wouldn’t dare ask a question. > It wouldnt make much sense to buy a bird with the specialized diet of a > lory, bring it home and then ask "what does it eat?"…. > unfortunately, we see this scenario way too often. So with Micks > warning, and Jennifers ID’ing, (and Chuck doing his research) maybe such > a fiasco has been avoided this time.

This time maybe, too bad you have to watch what ya say here or get attacked. > But I think Chucks stupid remarks about "dead birds buried in Micks > backyard" pretty much mark him (Chuck) as an low-functioning > microcephalic .

I think his point is that Mick had to start somewhere and most likely made a few mistakes along the way. Why not share the knowledge of the mistakes instead of putting on the mask of perfection. Tell me no one in here has bought a bird on impulse and I’ll shut up. Whats the term "MBD"?

Response:

> What crawled inside you and died Mick? > What color is the sky in your world? > Impulsively buying exotic pet’s that you know nothing about is just > plain stupid. > **Mick**

One of the first steps in gaining knowledge is knowing what the hell you have to research. Unfortunately on this news group instead of sharing knowledge you prefer to flame and attack. At least she was interested in finding out what kind of bird it was rather than just going out and buying one. Makes it a hell of a lot easier to feed and care for when you know what it is. Course if ya don’t know I would highly suggest you don’t post a question here or you will get a similiar response from some self rightious know it all like yourself. I guess maybe there are elements here that would prefer that no one else enter the avian hobby. Don’t know why you all put on an air of "I know better than you", guess its a matter of insecurity or something. I salute the people that will give you a straight answer on here the rest of ya can, how did she put it? "blow it out your

Response:

Well this was another of those threads I missed until someone pointed it out to me. I see by this quoted response what kind of person we are dealing with here. Looks like someone who never grew up but he wants a pet bird. When he was still at home I wonder if Mommy and Daddy just handed him everything he said he wanted? While Mick may have come off a little gruff I can certainly see his point when I read the question. Even more so when I see the answer as to what kind of bird this was. As I understand these birds don’t eat "pet bird seed" you buy at the local K-mart. We too often see people run out and buy a bird because they saw it thought it was cool and just "want one". Then a few weeks later they either have a dead bird or a behavior problem that they have no idea how to handle. The first time I ate at the Rain Forest Cafe we stopped out front to watch them showing off some beautiful birds. When I showed particular interest in a B&G Macaw and told the handler we were wanting to get one she gave me a speech about not just running out and buying one. Unlike Chuck I calmly agreed with her and told her that we had been researching it and already had other birds so we knew what we were getting into. In retrospect I guess the proper response would have been to tell her to "blow it out her ass" and ask her "how many dead birds she had in her freezer" right Chuck? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take >big bites. Moderation is for monks. >Lazarus Long

Response:

Oop’s I had just woke up when I posted this and forgot to include the quote I was talking about. This is it. Hey Mick, Go and blow it out your ass!! People like you kill me..I guess I should have stated that yes infact I do have other birds and I do have many exotic reptiles and amphibians but I did not think that I would have to go into that to find out what kind of bird I was looking at. By the way MICK how many dead birds do you have in your freezer or buried in your back yard!! Chuck

Response:

Mick has a valid point – the impulse to "buy" seems a bit premature when you don’t even know the name of the species ( and it would follow that if you don’t know the species, you must not know about its care, etc.) Anyhow , with the species indentified , Chuck can study up on the species and its care requirements, and decide of he can provide that level of care…..then start shopping around for a breeder. It wouldnt make much sense to buy a bird with the specialized diet of a lory, bring it home and then ask "what does it eat?"…. unfortunately, we see this scenario way too often. So with Micks warning, and Jennifers ID’ing, (and Chuck doing his research) maybe such a fiasco has been avoided this time. But I think Chucks stupid remarks about "dead birds buried in Micks backyard" pretty much mark him (Chuck) as an low-functioning microcephalic . Doug

Response:

:> …any suggestions as to what is was, I would :> like to obtain one. :> :> Thanks for your help!! :> Chuck :> And finding out the name of a bird is the first :> step to researching whether you REALLY :> want one for a pet… :> :> Ed : Ed buddy, you are correct. However, Chuck didn’t do that. As you can : clearly see from the quote above, he decided that he wanted to obtain : one before finding out what it was. : **Mick** Sort of, interest in obtaining a bird isn’t always the same as rushing out to buy one immediately. Although his post could easily be interpreted that way. I just thought giving him more rope to hang himself with by asking for a clarification would have avoided looking too… enthusiastic… Ed — Bnet:DeliriumTremens "If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate."

Response:

New standard reply: "Sofa King We Todd Did"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I inquired as to what kind of bird is was and > all I got was "it is a lorie from New Guinea" > any suggestions as to what is was, I would > like to obtain one. > You saw a bird you couldn’t identify and now you want one. Based on > what? how pretty it was? Birds are not decorations. Not to even > mention the fact that you also wouldn’t have a clue as to what care this > species requires. > **Mick** > There’s really nothing new here but, > my photo album can be viewed at: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=29982

Response:

> Hey Mick, > Go and blow it out your ass!!

That’s nice. > People like you kill me..I guess I should have > stated that yes infact I do have other birds > and I do have many exotic reptiles and > amphibians

All impulse buys? > but I did not think that I would have to go into > that to find out what kind of bird I was looking > at.

You wouldn’t if all you wanted was to find out what kind of bird it was, but you said that you wanted to obtain one without knowing what it was. > By the way MICK how many dead birds do > you have in your freezer or buried in your > back yard!! > Chuck

Freezer: 7 Buried: I lost count at around 78. **Mick** There’s really nothing new here but, my photo album can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=29982

Response:

> …any suggestions as to what is was, I would > like to obtain one. > Thanks for your help!! > Chuck > And finding out the name of a bird is the first > step to researching whether you REALLY > want one for a pet… > Ed

Ed buddy, you are correct. However, Chuck didn’t do that. As you can clearly see from the quote above, he decided that he wanted to obtain one before finding out what it was. **Mick** There’s really nothing new here but, my photo album can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=29982

Response:

> What crawled inside you and died Mick?

What color is the sky in your world? Impulsively buying exotic pet’s that you know nothing about is just plain stupid. **Mick** There’s really nothing new here but, my photo album can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=29982

Response:

:> What crawled inside you and died Mick? : What color is the sky in your world? : Impulsively buying exotic pet’s that you know nothing about is just : plain stupid. And finding out the name of a bird is the first step to researching whether you REALLY want one for a pet… Ed — Bnet:DeliriumTremens "If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate."

Response:

Hey Mick, Go and blow it out your ass!! People like you kill me..I guess I should have stated that yes infact I do have other birds and I do have many exotic reptiles and amphibians but I did not think that I would have to go into that to find out what kind of bird I was looking at. By the way MICK how many dead birds do you have in your freezer or buried in your back yard!! Chuck

Response:

That is the one!! Thank you all for your help!! Chuck

Response:

What crawled inside you and died Mick? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I inquired as to what kind of bird is was and > all I got was "it is a lorie from New Guinea" > any suggestions as to what is was, I would > like to obtain one. > You saw a bird you couldn’t identify and now you want one. Based on > what? how pretty it was? Birds are not decorations. Not to even > mention the fact that you also wouldn’t have a clue as to what care this > species requires. > **Mick** > There’s really nothing new here but, > my photo album can be viewed at: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=29982

Response:

See the current issue of Bird Talk Magazine. The cover has an orange phase Dusky Lory. Check with Dick Schroder at Cuttlebone Plus. If he doesn’t have any, he will know who does.. RJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I was at the Newport Beach Pier the other day and the bird man was there. >Along with all his macaws he also had a little black and orange bird. The bird >was mostly black had an orange beak and some orange on its back and wings. I >inquired as to what kind of bird is was and all I got was "it is a lorie from >New Guinea" any suggestions as to what is was, I would like to obtain one. >Thanks for your help!! >Chuck

Response:

> I inquired as to what kind of bird is was and > all I got was "it is a lorie from New Guinea" > any suggestions as to what is was, I would > like to obtain one.

You saw a bird you couldn’t identify and now you want one. Based on what? how pretty it was? Birds are not decorations. Not to even mention the fact that you also wouldn’t have a clue as to what care this species requires. **Mick** There’s really nothing new here but, my photo album can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=29982

Response:

I was at the Newport Beach Pier the other day and the bird man was there. Along with all his macaws he also had a little black and orange bird. The bird was mostly black had an orange beak and some orange on its back and wings. I inquired as to what kind of bird is was and all I got was "it is a lorie from New Guinea" any suggestions as to what is was, I would like to obtain one. Thanks for your help!! Chuck

Response:

Maybe it’s a Dusky Lorie ? ~Cherie <a href="http://petslates.itgo.com">Personalized Pet Slates</a> <a href="http://members.aol.com/WinterTor/portraits.html">Pet Portraits by Cherie</a>

Response:

> I was at the Newport Beach Pier the other day and the bird man was there. > Along with all his macaws he also had a little black and orange bird. The bird > was mostly black had an orange beak and some orange on its back and wings. I > inquired as to what kind of bird is was and all I got was "it is a lorie from > New Guinea" any suggestions as to what is was, I would like to obtain one.

Probably a Dusky Lory. Some information and a picture are available online at http://www.arndt-verlag.com/projekt/birds_3.cgi?Desc=E011.htm&Pic=011… -J. — Jennifer Mullen | "One of the advantages of being | making exciting discoveries." –A.A. | Milne | |

Response:

cookware fumes

Question:

>Here’s a question for you folks: what kind of cookware is safe to use >around birds?

I recommend cast iron. Once it is well seasoned, it is as non-stick as teflon for frying! Be aware that burning oil in any pan can emit harmful fumes. For water-based cooking and acidic foods, use stainless steel. There is finally a cookwear company brave enough to admit that teflon can be harmful to birds, see Mirro’s statement: http://www.mirro.com/FAQ/faq.html#m Dupont keeps moving their webpage that addresses this issue, it is now at: http://www.dupont.com/teflon/newsroom/bird.html Note that PTFE is teflon, but they don’t say that in the article even though it is on the Dupont teflon website! — Ginger Wolnik Sunnyvale, CA USA

Response:

> Here’s a question for you folks: what kind of cookware is safe to use > around birds? I know that overheating Teflon and other non-stick > coatings is a big no-no (and we’re slowly phasing these items out of our > kitchen), but are there other things that are dangerous? Are all metals > pretty safe? it seems like they would be, but I thought I would ask, > just in case. Any info would be appreciated! > ~angel

Some old cooking crockery pots can contain lead or other heavy metals, which can poison things cooked in them. One time, my wife went out of town for a few days, along with her Chihuahua dog. She had brought along an old crockery cooking pot we never used at home. She cooked some chicken for herself and the dog, after which the wawa got horrible ill. He recovered, ok after an emergency trip to the vet. Apparently, humans are much less susceptible to lead than birds and small dogs. ( There is still a chance that the dog might have scarfed up something toxic ouside just before dinner!) In general, it’s best to just look at old crockery heirlooms! Al Before you buy.

Response:

Here’s a question for you folks: what kind of cookware is safe to use around birds? I know that overheating Teflon and other non-stick coatings is a big no-no (and we’re slowly phasing these items out of our kitchen), but are there other things that are dangerous? Are all metals pretty safe? it seems like they would be, but I thought I would ask, just in case. Any info would be appreciated! ~angel see my little green darling at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=925801&Auth=false Before you buy. Here we go again. >sigh PTFE (Teflon

Eclectus Molting question from new owner

Question:

I am asking this question for someone who does not have a computer. They are a VERY devoted bird owner, their birds are their passion and light of their life. I could not find this answer at any web sites I searched, nor could the bird owner find the answer at the library. The question:(IN 2 PARTS) 1. When do eclectus birds start their FIRST molting? 2. This particular eclectus, which is a female of the soloman island variety, is 4 months old and JUST STARTED molting, dropping tail feathers every day. IS this normal? Is this something the owner should be concerned about? Is it possible that the change of weather(on the east coast) from summer to autumn created this molting? Thank you so much in advance for your insight, knowledge and experience! Peace.

Response:

I will ask this question on the egroups eclectus site for you. It is a members only site, so I will get back to you. Sometimes it takes a few days to get a good answer, so be patient. Mari-Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am asking this question for someone who does not have a computer. > They are a VERY devoted bird owner, their birds are their passion and > light of their life. I could not find this answer at any web sites I > searched, nor could the bird owner find the answer at the library. > The question:(IN 2 PARTS) > 1. When do eclectus birds start their FIRST molting? > 2. This particular eclectus, which is a female of the soloman island > variety, is 4 months old and JUST STARTED molting, dropping tail > feathers every day. IS this normal? Is this something the owner should > be concerned about? Is it possible that the change of weather(on the > east coast) from summer to autumn created this molting? > Thank you so much in advance for your insight, knowledge and > experience! Peace.

Response:

THANK YOU MARI-SUE! I am unable to subscribe/find that group. I APPRECIATE your time and efforts VERY MUCH!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I will ask this question on the egroups eclectus site for you. It is a >members only site, so I will get back to you. Sometimes it takes a few >days to get a good answer, so be patient. >Mari-Sue > I am asking this question for someone who does not have a computer. > They are a VERY devoted bird owner, their birds are their passion and > light of their life. I could not find this answer at any web sites I > searched, nor could the bird owner find the answer at the library. > The question:(IN 2 PARTS) > 1. When do eclectus birds start their FIRST molting? > 2. This particular eclectus, which is a female of the soloman island > variety, is 4 months old and JUST STARTED molting, dropping tail > feathers every day. IS this normal? Is this something the owner should > be concerned about? Is it possible that the change of weather(on the > east coast) from summer to autumn created this molting? > Thank you so much in advance for your insight, knowledge and > experience! Peace.

Response:

I don’t know the age for the first molt, but I will say that my SIE hen is molting right now like crazy – lots of large feathers around. I live in the Chicago burbs. A lot of people on my eclectus list are also reporting molting happening now. So it could be normal molt. The only concern would be if the feathers are not replaced. That could be a very bad sign, like PBFD. But don’t panic – it’s very unlikely if the baby came from a responsible breeder. Janet Levy

Response:

Here are the replies I got from two of the most respected ladies in the Eclectus bird club. Take their advise very seriously. Also, both answers are quit long and detailed so I will post them seperately. Mari-Sue I would suggest the owner of this Eclectus take the bird into the vet for viral testing, polyoma, and pbfd specifically. Generally in the babies I have raised they do not molt out primaries until sometime around one year of age. The loss of tail feathers can be the 1st clinical sign of PBFD. In my experience with PBFD in lories, it was the tail feathers that were lost at around the time of fledging, then followed with the loss of flight feathers. Have the owner ask the veterinarian to do blood samples and send them to: Research Associates Laboratory, Inc. 5991 Meijer Drive. Suite 24, Milford, OH 45150. 513- 248-4700. If the vet is unfamiliar with this lab he can call them with instructions. During an on going pbfd outbreak in our group of lories we tried several labs and got false results until we started using RAL. I just returned from the Avian Conference in Portland Oregon and am eager to find the time to post some of the new information I got from RAL during meetings with them. However, at this time I am bringing home our lories from the zoo exhibit to their winter quarters at my aviaries and I am exhausted! Today will be my last trip to the zoo and as soon as I settle the birds in I will post more information on this list regarding some of the information I learned. This was a great meeting, but I left on Aug 26- returned on Sept 2- and went straight to the zoo and haven’t had time to unpack my suitcase yet. In the mean time she should isolate the young Eclectus in strict quarantine away from all of the other birds she has. Virus particles can be airborne and carried on shoes, clothing, hair, hands, bowls, etc. Precautions are required right now! It is very important that she takes care to feed, clean and care for this bird last and leave shoes in the room the bird is quarantined in and not to handle any other birds she may own until she scrubs herself up. There can be other nutritional or bacterial problems that may result in feather loss however, pbfd would be of concern. Was this a new purchase? Or is this a chick from her personal aviaries. If this chick has a sibling it also should be isolated. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > THANK YOU MARI-SUE! I am unable to subscribe/find that group. I > APPRECIATE your time and efforts VERY MUCH!!! >I will ask this question on the egroups eclectus site for you. It is a >members only site, so I will get back to you. Sometimes it takes a few >days to get a good answer, so be patient. >Mari-Sue >> I am asking this question for someone who does not have a computer. >> They are a VERY devoted bird owner, their birds are their passion and >> light of their life. I could not find this answer at any web sites I >> searched, nor could the bird owner find the answer at the library. >> The question:(IN 2 PARTS) >> 1. When do eclectus birds start their FIRST molting? >> 2. This particular eclectus, which is a female of the soloman island >> variety, is 4 months old and JUST STARTED molting, dropping tail >> feathers every day. IS this normal? Is this something the owner should >> be concerned about? Is it possible that the change of weather(on the >> east coast) from summer to autumn created this molting? >> Thank you so much in advance for your insight, knowledge and >> experience! Peace.

Response:

2nd answer. First, this is NOT normal if the feathers are truly dropping out. Please inform the person asap. I would first check to make sure that they are not being broken off by an active young bird as the first feathers are less sturdy than later ones. If indeed they are dropping out…this is a typical symptom of viral disease…either polyoma or PBFD, or both. The bird should be immediately isolated from any other birds in the environment, including separate air, and fed and handled last, its food and water dishes washed separately and cloroxed…If there are other birds in the house, I would move them OUT before they pick up the disease…because the area has to be decontaminated…viruses are in the air, on the floor, etc. Hopefully, there are no other birds in the house, especially young ones. The bird needs to be taken to an AVIAN vet immediately to undergo testing for polyoma and PBFD in order to establish a real diagnosis of disease. Hopefully, this is a newly acquired pet bird that has been vet checked. If not, it is important that the person go to an avian vet or they may not have adequate expertize. Moulting of the small head feathers and upper body occurs around 6 plus months. Moulting of the primary feathers and long tail feathers occurs after the bird is a year old. Change of seasons has no bearing on this first moult, it is part of the bird’s inner development program. (In an adult parrot, moving the bird from a cold outdoor environment to a warm indoor environment could stimulate moulting, but not in such a young bird.) Mari-Sue, please let us know the outcome of this case. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > THANK YOU MARI-SUE! I am unable to subscribe/find that group. I > APPRECIATE your time and efforts VERY MUCH!!! >I will ask this question on the egroups eclectus site for you. It is a >members only site, so I will get back to you. Sometimes it takes a few >days to get a good answer, so be patient. >Mari-Sue >> I am asking this question for someone who does not have a computer. >> They are a VERY devoted bird owner, their birds are their passion and >> light of their life. I could not find this answer at any web sites I >> searched, nor could the bird owner find the answer at the library. >> The question:(IN 2 PARTS) >> 1. When do eclectus birds start their FIRST molting? >> 2. This particular eclectus, which is a female of the soloman island >> variety, is 4 months old and JUST STARTED molting, dropping tail >> feathers every day. IS this normal? Is this something the owner should >> be concerned about? Is it possible that the change of weather(on the >> east coast) from summer to autumn created this molting? >> Thank you so much in advance for your insight, knowledge and >> experience! Peace.

Response:

Egg Shells

Question:

I was wondering, if feeding egg shells, could give a bird a taste for eggshell, thereby, causing egg laying birds to cannibalize their own eggs. Just a thought. Regards

Response:

> I was wondering, if feeding egg shells, could give a bird a taste for eggshell, > thereby, causing egg laying birds to cannibalize their own eggs. > Just a thought.

I wish. I give my birds egg shells and they never eat their own eggs. Luk

Response:

I think this could be a problem if fed as a whole egg. The only other birds I have bred have been CAG’s. Of several clutches, I only ever found one half of one eggshell. I could only presume that the female was eating the shells after the babies hatch. This could serve 2 purposes in the wild. 1. Don’t clue in predators that babies are present by flinging out the shells. 2. Help replenish the calcium lost through egg laying. Sort of the same reason land mammels eat the placenta. Mari-Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I was wondering, if feeding egg shells, could give a bird a taste for eggshell, > thereby, causing egg laying birds to cannibalize their own eggs. > Just a thought. > Regards

Response:

This is a good concern, though. Even my poultry books mention that eggshells are good to feed back to hens as a calcium supplement, but you need to be careful to serilize them and to crush them finely so that they are unrecognizable as eggshells. I nuke mine, three minutes, turn, then three minutes. No bacteria can live through that. When they cool down, I run them through an eggshell-dedicated coffee grinder. Then, I keep them in a plastic jar in my fridge. And sprinkle it on their softfood every day (that’s for the exotic birds… the chickens get it sprinkled on their pellets everyday). Everyone loves it. I’m almost thinking that if they get enough calcium in their diet, they should be LESS likely to want to cannibalize their own eggs. –Claire Talltree – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was wondering, if feeding egg shells, could give a bird a taste for eggshell, > thereby, causing egg laying birds to cannibalize their own eggs. > Just a thought. > I wish. > I give my birds egg shells and they never eat their > own eggs. > Luk

Response:

>Even my poultry books mention that

eggshells are good to feed back to hens as a calcium supplement, but you need to be careful to serilize them and to crush them finely so that they are unrecognizable as eggshells. Very true, but then we are giving chickens eggshells from *chicken eggs* (yes, I have a flock of them, too), whereas we don’t feed our pet birds eggshells from their own species. — Nita www.nitasnest.homestead.com Visit Nita’s Nest, featuring "Beginning with Birds" basic care guide

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is a good concern, though. Even my poultry books mention that > eggshells are good to feed back to hens as a calcium supplement, but you > need to be careful to serilize them and to crush them finely so that > they are unrecognizable as eggshells. > I nuke mine, three minutes, turn, then three minutes. No bacteria can > live through that. When they cool down, I run them through an > eggshell-dedicated coffee grinder. Then, I keep them in a plastic jar > in my fridge. And sprinkle it on their softfood every day (that’s for > the exotic birds… the chickens get it sprinkled on their pellets > everyday). Everyone loves it. > I’m almost thinking that if they get enough calcium in their diet, they > should be LESS likely to want to cannibalize their own eggs. > –Claire Talltree > > I was wondering, if feeding egg shells, could give a bird a taste for eggshell, > > thereby, causing egg laying birds to cannibalize their own eggs. > > Just a thought. > I wish. > I give my birds egg shells and they never eat their > own eggs. > Luk

Response:

Fully cooked, crunched up or ground up eggs shells are a good source of natural calcium. Wheh I feed egg, I mush up shell and all. Generally love it. Mari-Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What’s this I hear about egg shells? Are they good for birds, all birds? > Why? What does it do for them? My Ruby, the Hahn’s, loves eggs but I’ve > not tried the shells. What do you think? > Janet > After you’ve seen Wheeler’s greatest birds on the planet, check out my > greatest bird in the universe!!! (hee hee!) > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=920323&a=6711759 > TCotB # 70

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What’s this I hear about egg shells? Are they good for birds, all birds? Why? What does it do for them? My Ruby, the Hahn’s, loves eggs but I’ve not tried the shells. What do you think? Janet After you’ve seen Wheeler’s greatest birds on the planet, check out my greatest bird in the universe!!! (hee hee!) http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=920323&a=6711759 TCotB # 70

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> What’s this I hear about egg shells? Are they good for birds, all birds? > Why? What does it do for them? My Ruby, the Hahn’s, loves eggs but I’ve > not tried the shells. What do you think? > Janet

Eggshells provide calcium, just like cuttlebone or mineral blocks. If Ruby is getting enough calcium in her regular diet, she doesn’t really NEED them, but it won’t hurt to offer them occasionally if they are prepared properly. The important thing with eggshells is to cook out the bacteria. You can bake them or nuke them. I add them to birdie bread recipes. Eggshells are very useful when breeding. I have had a budgie hen lay a soft or grainy feeling egg at times, even though a cuttlebone and mineral block are in the breeding cage. When this happens, I add Avimin to the water and powdered eggshell on the soft food and the problem goes away. I once bought a good-sized jar of powdered eggshell for $4 at a bird fair and this has lasted me a long, long time. A real bargain. Janet Levy

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domestic animals to be killed today at est 4:00pm

Question:

Whoa, had to walk away from the computer for a minute and think about this. I am a avid hunter. I hunt doves, qual, ducks, geese, pheasant. It has been a part of my life and my heritage since I can remember. I have never participated nor would I in a canned hunt. However, after reading the guestbook of the page that was mentioned it occurred to me that perhaps I’m wrong to judge the morality of it. When a youth with spina bifida can quote 143 passages in the bible that refer to hunting I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. They believe in what they are doing and who am I to question or force my own believes on them. Am I wrong to hunt birds? I’ve never thought of it as wrong or bad. I have also saved baby birds, (note baby dove post). I’ve killed snakes as well, someone on here suggested ways to kill snakes. I’m sure posted on a herp board would bring loads of flames. My point being to each his own, as soon as I go judging someone its bound to land right back in my feet. Not any different really than the push by some people to outlaw the keeping of "exotic" pets, such as we are. I’m really not any better or wiser or more moral than anyone else.

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i think the basic tenets of killing for food, as I have been taught are as follows: Take no more than you need Take what you need with respect What you need – that’s the elusive one, in a society where we have no need to hunt yet have the instinct. I’m not passing judgment… I lived in an area were supplementing your supplies with wild game was not an option, it was necessity. That is hunting! Respect what you take – I enjoy many aspects of the hunt, being outdoors, matching wits with an animal in it’s own environment, the food I will enjoy from a successful kill. I take pleasure in the hunt… not the death. I make sure to not waste anything. I make sure my shot is clean and death is as quick and painless as possible. I respect my prey! Fenced hunts to teach children that needless killing is okay is a travesty. It shows no respect for the prey. It legitimizes the act of killing for sport/ pleasure. This whole fiasco only shows how regions can twist anything to suit their purposes. I’m sure their God… would NOT approve. It is nothing less than abuse and should be subject to litigation.

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ABOVE-damn dyslexic fingers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Saw the movie as a young person and read the book as well. Many times the >"nerds and underdogs" are disregarded in our "culture" what a shame. We as >a people "should" rise ABOVE our baser nature. >In the listed article "real hunters" were most opposed to canned hunts. Met >a fellow some years back, he was a real hunter, he hunted bear with a black >powder rifle. He shared that meat with me and shared it with a different >level of pride than the "canned" killers can ever imagine. >Bob W-I like birds, except Heron, who have been eating all my little lovely >gold fishes. >– >Don’t go look at the greatest birds on this planet, don’t you do it! >http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false >> Golly, read the article and am somewhat confused, see I was raised in a >> church, hunted (real hunting) with my granddad and ran a farm in my >youth. >> I still do not get the point of a canned hunt for anyone much less kids >in >> wheel chairs. Those pens, to answer the question, are not very big, just >> think, some of these kids were indeed in wheelchairs! >> Bob W-By the way I no longer go to church, no longer hunt and only raise >a >> few chickens and parrots on the "farm". >> — >Did you ever see the movie, "Bless the Beasts and the Children"? That >movie >showed canned "hunts" at a buffalo farm. Buffalo to be culled were herded >into >small pens and shot by kids and adults standing at the other end. The >movie >is about some nearby campers who are the nerds and outcasts of the camp who >witness this and are horrified. Later they attempt to save the buffalos >before >the next event. I think it’s a good flick – had a great theme song too. >I find these things very distasteful. I am a meat eater and fully >understand >the need to kill animals for food, but I cannot fathom why standing and >shooting >an animal who cannot escape would be fun entertainment. What does this say >about >the people doing it? What are they teaching their children? Something is >very >wrong about this. True hunters usually will say that it isn’t the killing >they >enjoy but the thrill of the hunt itself and the camaradery of being the >woods >with >friends. These canned "hunts" are the antithesis of this, it seems to me. >Janet Levy

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Saw the movie as a young person and read the book as well. Many times the "nerds and underdogs" are disregarded in our "culture" what a shame. We as a people "should" rise about our baser nature. In the listed article "real hunters" were most opposed to canned hunts. Met a fellow some years back, he was a real hunter, he hunted bear with a black powder rifle. He shared that meat with me and shared it with a different level of pride than the "canned" killers can ever imagine. Bob W-I like birds, except Heron, who have been eating all my little lovely gold fishes. — Don’t go look at the greatest birds on this planet, don’t you do it! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Golly, read the article and am somewhat confused, see I was raised in a > church, hunted (real hunting) with my granddad and ran a farm in my youth. > I still do not get the point of a canned hunt for anyone much less kids in > wheel chairs. Those pens, to answer the question, are not very big, just > think, some of these kids were indeed in wheelchairs! > Bob W-By the way I no longer go to church, no longer hunt and only raise a > few chickens and parrots on the "farm". > — >Did you ever see the movie, "Bless the Beasts and the Children"? That movie >showed canned "hunts" at a buffalo farm. Buffalo to be culled were herded into >small pens and shot by kids and adults standing at the other end. The movie >is about some nearby campers who are the nerds and outcasts of the camp who >witness this and are horrified. Later they attempt to save the buffalos before >the next event. I think it’s a good flick – had a great theme song too. >I find these things very distasteful. I am a meat eater and fully understand >the need to kill animals for food, but I cannot fathom why standing and shooting >an animal who cannot escape would be fun entertainment. What does this say >about >the people doing it? What are they teaching their children? Something is very >wrong about this. True hunters usually will say that it isn’t the killing they >enjoy but the thrill of the hunt itself and the camaradery of being the woods >with >friends. These canned "hunts" are the antithesis of this, it seems to me. >Janet Levy

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>Ok, I went to their website. It doesn’t say anything about fences or hand >raised >animals. It is obvious, however, that the organization running the site >doesn’t >actually determine how the various local churches doing the hunts will run >them >so it’s possible some group did that. Do you have any more info on which >local church did the fenced/handraised animal hunt? >Ed

http://www.herald.com/content/today/opinion/columnists/grimm/digdocs/… Regards

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:>Ok, I went to their website. It doesn’t say anything about fences or hand :>raised :>animals. It is obvious, however, that the organization running the site :>doesn’t :>actually determine how the various local churches doing the hunts will run :>them :>so it’s possible some group did that. Do you have any more info on which :>local church did the fenced/handraised animal hunt? :> :>Ed : http://www.herald.com/content/today/opinion/columnists/grimm/digdocs/… : Regards Thanks, at least that article game some sort of info about the location the "hunt" was at. Anyone have any info on the size of the fenced in area? Ed — "If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate."

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The ranch itself is 2000 acres. They have a web site. http://www.bradyranch.com/default1.htm Debbie, Dusty(CAG) and Casperella(U2)

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Golly, read the article and am somewhat confused, see I was raised in a church, hunted (real hunting) with my granddad and ran a farm in my youth. I still do not get the point of a canned hunt for anyone much less kids in wheel chairs. Those pens, to answer the question, are not very big, just think, some of these kids were indeed in wheelchairs! Bob W-By the way I no longer go to church, no longer hunt and only raise a few chickens and parrots on the "farm". — Don’t go look at the greatest birds on this planet, don’t you do it! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=920736&Auth=false – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >:>Ok, I went to their website. It doesn’t say anything about fences or hand >:>raised >:>animals. It is obvious, however, that the organization running the site >:>doesn’t >:>actually determine how the various local churches doing the hunts will run >:>them >:>so it’s possible some group did that. Do you have any more info on which >:>local church did the fenced/handraised animal hunt? >:> >:>Ed >:

http://www.herald.com/content/today/opinion/columnists/grimm/digdocs/…. htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->: Regards >Thanks, at least that article game some sort of info about the location the >"hunt" was at. Anyone have any info on the size of the fenced in area? >Ed >– > "If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate."

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> Golly, read the article and am somewhat confused, see I was raised in a > church, hunted (real hunting) with my granddad and ran a farm in my youth. > I still do not get the point of a canned hunt for anyone much less kids in > wheel chairs. Those pens, to answer the question, are not very big, just > think, some of these kids were indeed in wheelchairs! > Bob W-By the way I no longer go to church, no longer hunt and only raise a > few chickens and parrots on the "farm". > —

Did you ever see the movie, "Bless the Beasts and the Children"? That movie showed canned "hunts" at a buffalo farm. Buffalo to be culled were herded into small pens and shot by kids and adults standing at the other end. The movie is about some nearby campers who are the nerds and outcasts of the camp who witness this and are horrified. Later they attempt to save the buffalos before the next event. I think it’s a good flick – had a great theme song too. I find these things very distasteful. I am a meat eater and fully understand the need to kill animals for food, but I cannot fathom why standing and shooting an animal who cannot escape would be fun entertainment. What does this say about the people doing it? What are they teaching their children? Something is very wrong about this. True hunters usually will say that it isn’t the killing they enjoy but the thrill of the hunt itself and the camaradery of being the woods with friends. These canned "hunts" are the antithesis of this, it seems to me. Janet Levy

Response:

:This thread is off topic now, so I will no longer respond to you. You forgot to put your hands over your ears and yell "NAAAAAA NAAAAAA I CAN’T HEAR YOU NAAAAAAA NAAAAAA NAAAAAA!" — Jennifer Mullen | "Due to this incredible number of http://members.home.net/aratingae/ | respect of RFC-1036, I conclude that | this software may not be called a | newsreader." on Microsoft Internet | Explorer

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: Today that Youth Challenge is having the hunt where they put up hand raised : animals in a fenced area for these children to kill. : This is an organized church doing this kill. I called my far off cousin : television station channel 12 in West Palm Beach and they cannot do a thing to : even tell about this. : Isn’t there anything anyone can do for these animals? 20/20 had a feature on : this kill…and it still goes on to day. : Visit their web site…… sychunts.com : anyone have any ideas? Ok, I went to their website. It doesn’t say anything about fences or hand raised animals. It is obvious, however, that the organization running the site doesn’t actually determine how the various local churches doing the hunts will run them so it’s possible some group did that. Do you have any more info on which local church did the fenced/handraised animal hunt? Ed — "If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate."

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Not at all. Got to you didn’t it? There is a big difference between doing what is natural and eating food as an omnivore. I have killed creatures, and eaten them. That is nature. Killing for pure sport is disgusting. I used to do it. Especially birds. Now I respect, keep, and raise birds. I appreciate God’s creatures. Teaching these children to kill is, to ME disgusting too. Unless perhaps you teach them how to clean and eat a kill. The food chain in nature’s way. Butchery for pleasure is NOT. Just think, now the kills that kill the deer can tell the kids at the zoo… "I killed these things". Too bad you can consider the plight of these kids being taught murder of animals, as well as the victims, of Columbine. And don’t give me the bruised morality routine. What, in our current society, is so special about Columbine Tragedy? Kids are killed every hour in inner city schools in similar conditions, and on the streets in front of their homes. Were the children of Columbine more special the the hispanic or black children in bad neighborhoods and schools? And your comment about the slaughterhouse is typically small minded. If you can’t tell the difference between food and sport, you have a problem. I lived on farms where sheep were raised. I saw the joy of the young lambs playing. I don’t eat mutton. You can’t say a word about slaughterhouses yourself unless you are a total vegetarian. This thread is off topic now, so I will no longer respond to you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >:I wonder if they will take the killer child up to the animal to get a >:good view of what dealing death looks like. Then the child should be >:taught to gut and clean the animal, like hunters do. I doubt if this >:would be a growing experience for a healthy child. >:I suppose after they kill, they continue their education at Columbine. >That’s a disgusting comment and utterly disrespectful of the losses >suffered by the families and friends of the children killed at Columbine. >Perhaps you ought to visit a slaughterhouse and keep that image in your >mind the next time you buy meat wrapped in nice little packages at the >grocery store. > -J.

Visit my small set of webpages at: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/f/r/fredpb/index.html Some nature photos there, and pictures and text about my pet birds: cockatiels and a Green Cheeked Conure. Always making additions! Fred

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> Today that Youth Challenge is having the hunt where they put up hand raised > animals in a fenced area for these children to kill.

I checked the site. There was no mention of fences or domestic animals. I’d like to see some documentation to back up these accusations. > This is an organized church doing this kill.

Actually, they are what is known as a ‘para-church organization’. They are not an organized church, but an independant ministry that provides a service to Christian and non-Christian people. They list churches as a sponser, but list no affiliation that I could find. Personally, I don’t have a problem with what they’re doing. Sounds like they’re providing a good community service.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Today that Youth Challenge is having the hunt where they put up hand >raised > animals in a fenced area for these children to kill. >I checked the site. There was no mention of fences or domestic animals. I’d >like to see some documentation to back up these accusations. > This is an organized church doing this kill. >Actually, they are what is known as a ‘para-church organization’. They are >not an organized church, but an independant ministry that provides a service >to Christian and non-Christian people. They list churches as a sponser, but >list no affiliation that I could find. >Personally, I don’t have a problem with what they’re doing. Sounds like >they’re providing a good community service.

I definitely have a problem with what they are doing. I wonder if they will take the killer child up to the animal to get a good view of what dealing death looks like. Then the child should be taught to gut and clean the animal, like hunters do. I doubt if this would be a growing experience for a healthy child. I suppose after they kill, they continue their education at Columbine. Visit my small set of webpages at: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/f/r/fredpb/index.html Some nature photos there, and pictures and text about my pet birds: cockatiels and a Green Cheeked Conure. Always making additions! Fred

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:I wonder if they will take the killer child up to the animal to get a :good view of what dealing death looks like. Then the child should be :taught to gut and clean the animal, like hunters do. I doubt if this :would be a growing experience for a healthy child. :I suppose after they kill, they continue their education at Columbine. That’s a disgusting comment and utterly disrespectful of the losses suffered by the families and friends of the children killed at Columbine. Perhaps you ought to visit a slaughterhouse and keep that image in your mind the next time you buy meat wrapped in nice little packages at the grocery store. -J.

Response:

Today that Youth Challenge is having the hunt where they put up hand raised animals in a fenced area for these children to kill. This is an organized church doing this kill. I called my far off cousin television station channel 12 in West Palm Beach and they cannot do a thing to even tell about this. Isn’t there anything anyone can do for these animals? 20/20 had a feature on this kill…and it still goes on to day. Visit their web site…… sychunts.com anyone have any ideas?

Response:

Perhaps you could be a little clearer about what you are talking about. Who is killing what, where and why. Mari-Sue

Response:

>Today that Youth Challenge is having the hunt where they put up hand raised >animals in a fenced area for these children to kill. >This is an organized church doing this kill. >Visit their web site…… sychunts.com >anyone have any ideas?

Mari-Sue, I think I explained very clearly to what is going on to ‘what is being killed’ On a Ranch in Indian Town….is where the kill happened …and ‘why’ goto: their web site as I directed in my post and do your own ‘guessing’ does it matter ‘why’ the end result is we have the youth killing domestic animals in a fenced in area…what does it matter ‘why’. Do you think one can justify, rationalize or defend their motivation for this killing by disabled youth? what we have are youth standing over dead domestic animals. Be wonderful if someone could change this around to ‘the disabled youth standing over ‘rehabilitated domestic animals. at any rate the web url is sychunts.com

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can humans get sick from parrots?

Question:

I agree… absolutely. My point to Joe was not to transfer food from his mouth to the bird’s. Much safer to let the bird eat off your plate or hand feed whatever you’re having. — Mama ~^~^~^~ Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> (To email: change nest to net) >My former vet from when I lived in Chicago, T. J. Lafeber was >practicing at Niles Animal Hospital in those days said if the bird was >willing to eat people food, in moderation, it was probably good for >him. He was talking about a greater sulphur crested…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This reminds me of my sister’s first cockatiel MANY years ago. He got > sick and we took him to Dr. Lafeber who was one of the only avian vets > in the Chicago area – although I also remember a place called the Brown’s > Bird Hospital? Anyway, he said the tiel was malnourished and to be sure > and give it some of whatever we had for dinner every night – meat, potatoes, > vegies – a tiny bit of everything. This sounded pretty radical to us in > those days, but that bird did fine ever after. > Janet Levy

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Oh, I guess you were looking for SERIOUS answers…my bad <eg> Here’s a link to an article about psitticosis and other avian diseases http://gallus.tamu.edu/Diseases/PDSec3.htm I’ve always heard that humans have more bacteria and germs in their mouth than animals, although, after catching Nora the Chocolate Cocker munch on tidbits from the cat’s litter box, I HIGHLY doubt that theory!!! If I don’t make up Mollie’s treat dish before I sit down to eat, she will usually just walk right through my food to whatever she wants so we don’t usually ’share’ our food. HTH Laurie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> THanks to everyone for their replies. I already caught MBD and am thinking > about getting another. > But seriosly, what is psitticosis? > And you mention not letting a bird take food from one’s mouth, does that apply > to sharing your food with them? > Joe >Just don’t let her beak come in contact with the inside of your mouth. >There’s nasty, creepy, crawly stuff in there that could make her sick. I >always go through the roof when I see someone let a bird take food from >their mouth. Saw a guy on one of those stupid "supposed to be funny" home >video shows actually letting his bird pick his teeth! >I believe that Psitticosis is the only disease a human can catch from a >bird. >> Also, she likes to drink out of my >> cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? >Depends on what you’re drinking. <G> >> Thanks for your help >> Joe >– >Mama >~^~^~^~ > Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ >"There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in >which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before." >Robert Lynd

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In case you aren’t able to find anything on MBD > > (multiple bird disorder) here is a link to a website of someone who has > an > > EXTREME case. http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ > > Laurie > Not so. I happen to know that person personally, and she is cured now. :) > — > Mamabob

Yeah right! And I’m a NATURAL blonde! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > God yes, you can get MBD form that kind of behavior. > > > Bob W > > > > Hi all, > > > > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me > with > > her beak > > > > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. > Can > > I > > > > contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink > out > > of my > > > > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? > > > > Thanks for your help > > > > Joe

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>My point to Joe was not to transfer food from his mouth to the bird’s. >Much safer to let the bird eat off your plate or hand feed whatever you’re >having.

Ditto! It also occurs to me, the disease issue aside, that it probably isn’t a good idea to allow a parrot to acquire the habit of eating from one’s mouth for behavioral reasons. If a large parrot has learned to do that and it REALLY wants what I’m eating, I think it could be pretty painful! I have fed pet birds by hand for a lot of years and I’ve very rarely been bitten, and never hard. They seem to know what’s food and what isn’t. Still, ya never know… john Peaches, Tropical, Jiminy & Cricket – PFLBs Sunshine – IRN Stormy – Patagonian

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My birds have all, except one of the budgies, at one time or another eaten food from my mouth, but I try to avoid it. Coral likes to feed me, which I think is very sweet of her, but if I just pretend to take it, she always knows. She won’t put it in my hand, she wants to cram it in my mouth. There are times when she’s acting weird and we just don’t DO food because I don’t want her beak that close to my face. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My point to Joe was not to transfer food from his mouth to the bird’s. >Much safer to let the bird eat off your plate or hand feed whatever you’re >having. > Ditto! > It also occurs to me, the disease issue aside, that it probably isn’t a good > idea to allow a parrot to acquire the habit of eating from one’s mouth for > behavioral reasons. If a large parrot has learned to do that and it REALLY > wants what I’m eating, I think it could be pretty painful! > I have fed pet birds by hand for a lot of years and I’ve very rarely been > bitten, and never hard. They seem to know what’s food and what isn’t. Still, > ya never know… > john > Peaches, Tropical, Jiminy & Cricket – PFLBs > Sunshine – IRN > Stormy – Patagonian

– Kellie Final Portrait * A Novel by Kellie Sisson Snider Kass Arts Publicity <http://kassarts.bizland.com>

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > Hi all, > > > > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me > with > > her beak > > > > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. > Can > > I > > > > contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink > out > > of my > > > > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? > > > > Thanks for your help > > > > Joe > Please stop this beastiality, save it for another forum. If you

continue to french kiss the beast you will burn in hell for you sin unless you repent and return you beast to the wilds of Africa. Good luck and godspeed. Before you buy.

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[more crap] back to showing those Mormons that their faith is invalid and making sure that homosexuals get help for their "brain defect" and leave the bird people alone? You have SO MUCH important work to do, man, you shouldn’t spread yourself so thin. Stir up one group at a time, meow meow! -J. — Jennifer Mullen | "One of the advantages of being http://members.home.net/aratingae/ | making exciting discoveries." –A.A. | Milne |

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – deja.com go > back to showing those Mormons that their faith is invalid and making sure > that homosexuals get help for their "brain defect" and leave the bird > people alone? You have SO MUCH important work to do, man, you shouldn’t > spread yourself so thin. Stir up one group at a time, meow meow! > -J. > — > Jennifer Mullen |

Ms. Mullen, Praytell what are you insinuating? If you are interested in discussions outside of this fine group perhaps you can post to the Mormon or Homosexual group yourself instead of lurking. Until then see ya later soul sista, Reguards, Clancy Before you buy.

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> Simple Laurie, if the post is super stupid, someone else wrote it.

I did NOT!!!! > Bob W-I like birds and post from Pacifier.com

Yeah, the big baby still needs his pacifier… > Jeez…I never know which Wheeler is posting anymore… > Yup, MBD is highly contagious, especially when your bird is so sweet that > they kiss you often. In case you aren’t able to find anything on MBD > (multiple bird disorder) here is a link to a website of someone who has an > EXTREME case. http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ > Laurie

Not so. I happen to know that person personally, and she is cured now. :) — Mamabob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > God yes, you can get MBD form that kind of behavior. > > Bob W > > > Hi all, > > > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me with > her beak > > > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. Can > I > > > contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink out > of my > > > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? > > > Thanks for your help > > > Joe

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Case in point! Bob W-I like birds – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Simple Laurie, if the post is super stupid, someone else wrote it. >I did NOT!!!! > Bob W-I like birds and post from Pacifier.com >Yeah, the big baby still needs his pacifier… > > Jeez…I never know which Wheeler is posting anymore… > > Yup, MBD is highly contagious, especially when your bird is so sweet >that > > they kiss you often. In case you aren’t able to find anything on MBD > > (multiple bird disorder) here is a link to a website of someone who has >an > > EXTREME case. http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ > > Laurie >Not so. I happen to know that person personally, and she is cured now. :) >– >Mamabob > > > God yes, you can get MBD form that kind of behavior. > > > Bob W > > > > Hi all, > > > > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me >with > > her beak > > > > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. >Can > > I > > > > contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink >out > > of my > > > > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? > > > > Thanks for your help > > > > Joe

Response:

Thanks for the info Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Here is a site explaining zoonotic, bird to human transmission, diseases. >http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww23eiii.htm >Hope this helps. >Regards

Response:

Thanks for the reply Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Psittacosis is highly contageous to human beings. If you have the >money, spend it for a test and it’s worth it to make sure your bird >hasn’t been exposed to it. >Renee

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Thanks for the info Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ve never had any trouble sharing dinner with a bird, althoug usually >the bird just takes the parts he wants off my plate and eats it before >I get a chance. Macaws just seem to love meatballs and pasta… >My former vet from when I lived in Chicago, T. J. Lafeber was >practicing at Niles Animal Hospital in those days said if the bird was >willing to eat people food, in moderation, it was probably good for >him. He was talking about a greater sulphur crested…

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>My former vet from when I lived in Chicago, T. J. Lafeber was >practicing at Niles Animal Hospital in those days said if the bird was >willing to eat people food, in moderation, it was probably good for >him. He was talking about a greater sulphur crested…

This reminds me of my sister’s first cockatiel MANY years ago. He got sick and we took him to Dr. Lafeber who was one of the only avian vets in the Chicago area – although I also remember a place called the Brown’s Bird Hospital? Anyway, he said the tiel was malnourished and to be sure and give it some of whatever we had for dinner every night – meat, potatoes, vegies – a tiny bit of everything. This sounded pretty radical to us in those days, but that bird did fine ever after. Janet Levy

Response:

THanks to everyone for their replies. I already caught MBD and am thinking about getting another. But seriosly, what is psitticosis? And you mention not letting a bird take food from one’s mouth, does that apply to sharing your food with them? Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Just don’t let her beak come in contact with the inside of your mouth. >There’s nasty, creepy, crawly stuff in there that could make her sick. I >always go through the roof when I see someone let a bird take food from >their mouth. Saw a guy on one of those stupid "supposed to be funny" home >video shows actually letting his bird pick his teeth! >I believe that Psitticosis is the only disease a human can catch from a >bird. > Also, she likes to drink out of my > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? >Depends on what you’re drinking. <G> > Thanks for your help > Joe >– >Mama >~^~^~^~ > Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ >"There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in >which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before." >Robert Lynd

Response:

>But seriosly, what is psitticosis? >And you mention not letting a bird take food from one’s mouth, does that >apply >to sharing your food with them? >Joe

Here is a site explaining zoonotic, bird to human transmission, diseases. http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww23eiii.htm Hope this helps. Regards

Response:

Psittacosis is highly contageous to human beings. If you have the money, spend it for a test and it’s worth it to make sure your bird hasn’t been exposed to it. Renee http://www.cockatoos.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all, >I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me with her beak >on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. Can I >contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink out of my >cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? >Thanks for your help >Joe

Response:

Jeez…I never know which Wheeler is posting anymore… Yup, MBD is highly contagious, especially when your bird is so sweet that they kiss you often. In case you aren’t able to find anything on MBD (multiple bird disorder) here is a link to a website of someone who has an EXTREME case. http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ Laurie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> God yes, you can get MBD form that kind of behavior. > Bob W > Hi all, > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me with her beak > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. Can I > contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink out of my > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? > Thanks for your help > Joe

Response:

Simple Laurie, if the post is super stupid, someone else wrote it. Bob W-I like birds and post from Pacifier.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Jeez…I never know which Wheeler is posting anymore… > Yup, MBD is highly contagious, especially when your bird is so sweet that > they kiss you often. In case you aren’t able to find anything on MBD > (multiple bird disorder) here is a link to a website of someone who has an > EXTREME case. http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ > Laurie > God yes, you can get MBD form that kind of behavior. > Bob W > > Hi all, > > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me with > her beak > > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. Can > I > > contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink out > of my > > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? > > Thanks for your help > > Joe

Response:

>THanks to everyone for their replies. I already caught MBD and am thinking >about getting another. >But seriosly, what is psitticosis? >And you mention not letting a bird take food from one’s mouth, does that apply >to sharing your food with them?

psitticosis in humans is a pulmonary Chlamydia psittaci infection, and it is transmitted both ways. Birds to humans and humans to birds. I’ve never had any trouble sharing dinner with a bird, althoug usually the bird just takes the parts he wants off my plate and eats it before I get a chance. Macaws just seem to love meatballs and pasta… My former vet from when I lived in Chicago, T. J. Lafeber was practicing at Niles Animal Hospital in those days said if the bird was willing to eat people food, in moderation, it was probably good for him. He was talking about a greater sulphur crested…

Response:

Wheeler is right — MBD is a very serious disease, which can cost you thousands of dollars and force you to move to larger and larger houses to accommodate your illness. It can also cause you to have friendships with other people who also suffer from MBD. There’s no cure for MBD, and the treatment is simply more of the same. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->God yes, you can get MBD form that kind of behavior. >Bob W > Hi all, > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me with her beak > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. Can I > contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink out of my > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? > Thanks for your help > Joe

Response:

> Hi all, > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me with her beak > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. Can I > contract any diseases from this activity?

Just don’t let her beak come in contact with the inside of your mouth. There’s nasty, creepy, crawly stuff in there that could make her sick. I always go through the roof when I see someone let a bird take food from their mouth. Saw a guy on one of those stupid "supposed to be funny" home video shows actually letting his bird pick his teeth! I believe that Psitticosis is the only disease a human can catch from a bird. > Also, she likes to drink out of my > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers?

Depends on what you’re drinking. <G> > Thanks for your help > Joe

– Mama ~^~^~^~ Visit "Mamabird’s Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/ "There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before." Robert Lynd

Response:

I asked the vet about this and she said she would be more worried about what I would pick up from the bird than vice versa. She then quickly confessed that she kissed her own birds…. From what I’ve read my main concern would be gram negative bacteria, there are good amounts of them even in clean human mouths and birds do not normally carry a lot of gram negatives. I try to restrict birdie kisses to the lips only to minimize the risk of infection to her. Sometimes though she talks me into letting her put her beak, sideways, between my teeth and then we both bite back and forth to "groom" her beak (tmi?) BTW the vet also checked her for chlymidia (the birdie kind) – it can cause respiratory infections and get passed to humans – she was negative. Hey – they have birdie diapers, maybe next someone will invent beak condoms so we can practice safe smooching =] — Randal and Dharma-Xena, avian warrior, Moustached Parakeet. Live in fear ye felines! "The greatest happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved – loved for ourselves, or rather, loved in spite of ourselves." – Victor Hugo Mail domain is pobox…

Response:

God yes, you can get MBD form that kind of behavior. Bob W – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all, > I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me with her beak > on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. Can I > contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink out of my > cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? > Thanks for your help > Joe

Response:

Hi all, I’m a new bird owner.I have an African Grey who likes to kiss me with her beak on my lips and sometimes she even ties to put her beak in my mouth. Can I contract any diseases from this activity? Also, she likes to drink out of my cup. Is that ok, from a health standpoint, mine or hers? Thanks for your help Joe

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