Filed under: Exotic Pet Birds
Question:
Hi all, Due to the death of our budgie Sebby who we had for about 1.5 years, I am looking at purchasing a cockatoo. I am based in Australia so I was wondering what may the average price be for a white cockatoo? Preferably young so I can tame he/she. Thanks
Response:
> Hi all, > Due to the death of our budgie Sebby who we had for about 1.5 years, I am > looking at purchasing a cockatoo. I am based in Australia so I was wondering > what may the average price be for a white cockatoo? Preferably young so I can > tame he/she. > Thanks
Hi, I don’t know the price of cockatoos in Australia but they ‘re very expensive in the UK . It a big jump from owning a budgie to owning a cockatoo. They need much more care and attention and live for a hell of a lot longer. Sorry if you know this already but I thought it was worth mentioning. Alison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
>Hi all, > A wild caught bird will never be as well behaved and socialized as a > aviary bred bird. Greater sulfur crested used to start at about > 200AUD in most shops. If you are in the Sydney area, there are a > couple of very good bird shops in Rooty Hill. > Macaws make better pets, but because of import restrictions, the > prices are definitely eye openers (B&G runs about 5,000AUD)…
Hi, I didn’t realise you could capture and keep wild native birds in Australia. It’s illegal in most countries. Alison
Response:
Hey Allison! Although in the USA it is illegal to have a native animal as a pet,allowing only ‘exotic’ ie. non-native species, it is illegal in Australia to import or export wildlife. They had some little trouble with kittys and bunnys and realized that they had to actively protect their continent and the rest of the world and enacted the laws that they thought necessary. This does make it a bit of trouble for them to obtain, say, a yellow nape amazon, and has the effect of pricing the birds in Australia very differently from the USA and the rest of the planet. At one time I had a link to an Aussie bird club page that listed the prices asked and paid for birds. Dropped my jaw and smashed my keyboard.
Response:
>Hey Allison! >Although in the USA it is illegal to have a native animal as a >pet,allowing only ‘exotic’ ie. non-native species, it is illegal in >Australia to import or export wildlife.
It is not illegal,it can be done, but it is certainly isn’t easy or inexpensive. Otherwise while would the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service have a Quarentine Station at Spotswood Vic. You can bring in Birds from the UK, NZ and a couple Scanadanavian countries, however the cost of the Quarantine service will definitely make you think about it. Last time I checked it was 6 weeks, at 1000AUD per week… Exports of pet birds are possible, you need a Cites permit, which you can obtain if you can prove you have owned the bird for a sufficiently long period. My recollection is it is a 1 year minimum. >This does make it a bit of trouble for them to obtain, say, a yellow >nape amazon, and has the effect of pricing the birds in Australia very >differently from the USA and the rest of the planet.
As I pointed, most of them are very dear,the local supply is limited, and cost of importation starts at about 6000AUD per animal. AQIS charges the same whether it is a bird or a bird dog…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At one time I had a >link to an Aussie bird club page that listed the prices asked and paid >for birds. Dropped my jaw and smashed my keyboard.
Response:
>They had some little trouble >with kittys and bunnys and realized that they had to actively protect
And frogs. Don’t forget the Cain Toads. Still one of my favorite documentaries. -J"Sometimes they mate right in the yard… and that’s why we like ‘em!". — Jennifer Mullen Please note: all email sent to the above address will automatically be processed into /dev/null and never read. The address to which mail should be sent is left for the reader to determine.
Response:
> Hi all, > Due to the death of our budgie Sebby who we had for about 1.5 years, I am > looking at purchasing a cockatoo. I am based in Australia so I was wondering > what may the average price be for a white cockatoo? Preferably young so I can > tame he/she. > Thanks
Hi, The Australian Parrot Society 2002 Price Guide lists a young Sulphur Crested Cockatoo at approx $100, although handraised babies often come at a higher price (however it’s well worth the extra). I would have to agree with Alison that a Cockatoo is a big jump from a Budgie. Have you looked at the below website? http://www.mytoos.com/ There are a few good breeders of Cockatoos in Australia, although most aren’t in breeding mode at the moment as we are coming into winter. Thanks, Kathryn
Response:
Do you maybe mean a cockatiel? It’s much, much smaller than a cockatoo but bigger than a budgie. — Pet Photographer http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > Due to the death of our budgie Sebby who we had for about 1.5 years, I am > looking at purchasing a cockatoo. I am based in Australia so I was wondering > what may the average price be for a white cockatoo? Preferably young so I can > tame he/she. > Thanks
Response:
In the US, cockatoos are usually anywhere from $1,000 to over $2,500. Catherine
Response:
Maybe things have changed down in Oz, but wasn’t it legal to capture/purchase a galah with a permit that cost about five dollars ? I think that several members of the training list (living in Australia) were also allowed to obtain Little Corellas (BE2s) – but I am not sure if these could be taken from the wild like the galahs. Anyone up-to-date on this ? Doug
Response:
matt w wrote > a wild caught bird will never be as well > behaved and socialized
as an aviary >bred bird Depends on who tamed/trained the bird. Parrots were kept as pets hundreds of years before any were aviary bred. The two gentlest birds we own are wild-caught CAG hens. My oldest B&G was wild-caught, and is gentle enough to have done over 50 TV spots, commercials, print jobs and has worked with dozens of "big name stars" since 1983 without ever even lookiing like he would bite somebody. It just takes a little time and effort – less time than it takes to hand-raise the same species. Don’t ever discount the pet-potential of an older imported bird, or pass on making a pet of a breeder that may have lost its mate. These birds need a place to go, too, and I find very few that can’t be socialized and made into excellent pets . Doug
Response:
May 20, 2002
Question:
Hi all, Due to the death of our budgie Sebby who we had for about 1.5 years, I am looking at purchasing a cockatoo. I am based in Australia so I was wondering what may the average price be for a white cockatoo? Preferably young so I can tame he/she. Thanks
Response:
> Hi all, > Due to the death of our budgie Sebby who we had for about 1.5 years, I am > looking at purchasing a cockatoo. I am based in Australia so I was wondering > what may the average price be for a white cockatoo? Preferably young so I can > tame he/she. > Thanks
Hi, I don’t know the price of cockatoos in Australia but they ‘re very expensive in the UK . It a big jump from owning a budgie to owning a cockatoo. They need much more care and attention and live for a hell of a lot longer. Sorry if you know this already but I thought it was worth mentioning. Alison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
>Hi all, > A wild caught bird will never be as well behaved and socialized as a > aviary bred bird. Greater sulfur crested used to start at about > 200AUD in most shops. If you are in the Sydney area, there are a > couple of very good bird shops in Rooty Hill. > Macaws make better pets, but because of import restrictions, the > prices are definitely eye openers (B&G runs about 5,000AUD)…
Hi, I didn’t realise you could capture and keep wild native birds in Australia. It’s illegal in most countries. Alison
Response:
Hey Allison! Although in the USA it is illegal to have a native animal as a pet,allowing only ‘exotic’ ie. non-native species, it is illegal in Australia to import or export wildlife. They had some little trouble with kittys and bunnys and realized that they had to actively protect their continent and the rest of the world and enacted the laws that they thought necessary. This does make it a bit of trouble for them to obtain, say, a yellow nape amazon, and has the effect of pricing the birds in Australia very differently from the USA and the rest of the planet. At one time I had a link to an Aussie bird club page that listed the prices asked and paid for birds. Dropped my jaw and smashed my keyboard.
Response:
>Hey Allison! >Although in the USA it is illegal to have a native animal as a >pet,allowing only ‘exotic’ ie. non-native species, it is illegal in >Australia to import or export wildlife.
It is not illegal,it can be done, but it is certainly isn’t easy or inexpensive. Otherwise while would the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service have a Quarentine Station at Spotswood Vic. You can bring in Birds from the UK, NZ and a couple Scanadanavian countries, however the cost of the Quarantine service will definitely make you think about it. Last time I checked it was 6 weeks, at 1000AUD per week… Exports of pet birds are possible, you need a Cites permit, which you can obtain if you can prove you have owned the bird for a sufficiently long period. My recollection is it is a 1 year minimum. >This does make it a bit of trouble for them to obtain, say, a yellow >nape amazon, and has the effect of pricing the birds in Australia very >differently from the USA and the rest of the planet.
As I pointed, most of them are very dear,the local supply is limited, and cost of importation starts at about 6000AUD per animal. AQIS charges the same whether it is a bird or a bird dog…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At one time I had a >link to an Aussie bird club page that listed the prices asked and paid >for birds. Dropped my jaw and smashed my keyboard.
Response:
>They had some little trouble >with kittys and bunnys and realized that they had to actively protect
And frogs. Don’t forget the Cain Toads. Still one of my favorite documentaries. -J"Sometimes they mate right in the yard… and that’s why we like ‘em!". — Jennifer Mullen Please note: all email sent to the above address will automatically be processed into /dev/null and never read. The address to which mail should be sent is left for the reader to determine.
Response:
> Hi all, > Due to the death of our budgie Sebby who we had for about 1.5 years, I am > looking at purchasing a cockatoo. I am based in Australia so I was wondering > what may the average price be for a white cockatoo? Preferably young so I can > tame he/she. > Thanks
Hi, The Australian Parrot Society 2002 Price Guide lists a young Sulphur Crested Cockatoo at approx $100, although handraised babies often come at a higher price (however it’s well worth the extra). I would have to agree with Alison that a Cockatoo is a big jump from a Budgie. Have you looked at the below website? http://www.mytoos.com/ There are a few good breeders of Cockatoos in Australia, although most aren’t in breeding mode at the moment as we are coming into winter. Thanks, Kathryn
Response:
Do you maybe mean a cockatiel? It’s much, much smaller than a cockatoo but bigger than a budgie. — Pet Photographer http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > Due to the death of our budgie Sebby who we had for about 1.5 years, I am > looking at purchasing a cockatoo. I am based in Australia so I was wondering > what may the average price be for a white cockatoo? Preferably young so I can > tame he/she. > Thanks
Response:
In the US, cockatoos are usually anywhere from $1,000 to over $2,500. Catherine
Response:
Maybe things have changed down in Oz, but wasn’t it legal to capture/purchase a galah with a permit that cost about five dollars ? I think that several members of the training list (living in Australia) were also allowed to obtain Little Corellas (BE2s) – but I am not sure if these could be taken from the wild like the galahs. Anyone up-to-date on this ? Doug
Response:
matt w wrote > a wild caught bird will never be as well > behaved and socialized
as an aviary >bred bird Depends on who tamed/trained the bird. Parrots were kept as pets hundreds of years before any were aviary bred. The two gentlest birds we own are wild-caught CAG hens. My oldest B&G was wild-caught, and is gentle enough to have done over 50 TV spots, commercials, print jobs and has worked with dozens of "big name stars" since 1983 without ever even lookiing like he would bite somebody. It just takes a little time and effort – less time than it takes to hand-raise the same species. Don’t ever discount the pet-potential of an older imported bird, or pass on making a pet of a breeder that may have lost its mate. These birds need a place to go, too, and I find very few that can’t be socialized and made into excellent pets . Doug
Response:
May 20, 2002
Question:
I have my bottle of Febreeze right here and I don’t see ANY ingredients listed at all. I DO know that I have used it on my comforter to get dog smell off and it worked great – no problems from my beagles laying all over that same comforter after it had dried. Not even any problems from them sneezing (like they do commonly from powders that you sprinkle on carpets etc – they have very sensitive noses). I could be wrong here, but Zinc Chloride sounds like the stuff that I find in vitamins that contain the "essential" element zinc. I don’t think there is anything to worry about with Febreeze – nor do I worry about allowing my body to touch fabrics cleaned with bleach, or sodas with Nutrasweet (Saccharin is FAR worse, and thank God Nutrasweet exists for all the Diabetics out there!). I don’t think anyone else should worry either – but if you SHOULD be concerned – just don’t use the product. Don’t try to scare the whole world with urban legends.
Response:
ah but is is urban legends when people’s pets actually die from it? think of Rimadyl, and that awful Hartz product for flea control that killed so many pets! cast your mind backwards and think of thalidomide – all rated perfectly safe except they are apparently not quite that… as for nutrasweet – what I have read on *that* product makes me glad that the first time I tried it my mouth broke out in massive sores teaching me never to willingly use it again! more recent accidental ingestion caused me massive digestive upset until I read the fine print in the food I had added to my diet. Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have my bottle of Febreeze right here and I don’t see ANY ingredients > listed at all. I DO know that I have used it on my comforter to get dog > smell off and it worked great – no problems from my beagles laying all over > that same comforter after it had dried. Not even any problems from them > sneezing (like they do commonly from powders that you sprinkle on carpets > etc – they have very sensitive noses). > I could be wrong here, but Zinc Chloride sounds like the stuff that I find > in vitamins that contain the "essential" element zinc. I don’t think there > is anything to worry about with Febreeze – nor do I worry about allowing my > body to touch fabrics cleaned with bleach, or sodas with Nutrasweet > (Saccharin is FAR worse, and thank God Nutrasweet exists for all the > Diabetics out there!). I don’t think anyone else should worry either – but > if you SHOULD be concerned – just don’t use the product. Don’t try to scare > the whole world with urban legends.
Response:
Some of us ARE worriers and some are not, some of us tend to avoid what we believe may be a potential problem while others take a wait and see attitude, this is what makes humans unique. Do not judge because I choose to avoid a chemical I do not want in my home, because 10 years from now (they probably said everything you are saying about asbestos too)when it is found to be a problem you will be eating crow. Never say never!Kim
Response:
Chris, Sorry, but I still disagree. Does my dog lay around on even diluted bleach surfaces- no. The other two substances must be overdosed but are necessary to life to cause problems same with Vit. e but I don’t take mega doses but I do take it in moderation. I do not NEED Zinc Chloride to live, nor do my dogs. I have used products for odor control on carpet that stated "for dogs" and had nothing but red skin on my harliquin for weeks after. Myself and many others in the dane community are very careful what goes in and around our danes and if it isn’t necessary, it isn’t going in them or around them. Put it this way I do not even us fabric softener products liquid or towels because it gives me skin problems. Put it this way, there are very few drugs that are not potentially dangerous if overdosed, even tylenol or aspirin, as many vitimins are toxix in large quantities but I’m not gulping them down and I’n not going to have my kids nor my dogs laying around in something that is a known irritant if I can find a natural solution instead. Why would I even take that chance?Kim
Response:
> Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe > skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to > believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing > the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
@% – even water is toxic if you drink too much! Get a grip people, it is the concentration and form of the chemical that determines whether it is good for you or bad for you. Practically every element known has been found to have some role in biochemistry. Sheesh! Now if you find that the concentration and form used in the product is close to that found to be dangerous – THEN worry. WBB
Response:
> > I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc > chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
That sounds like another urban legend – zinc is an essential nutrient in low doses, toxic in high doses. Zinc chloride is just a soluble form of zinc, nothing magic there. WBB
Response:
Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
Response:
>yes, but are you laying around on this stuff, or is it rinsed or on >counters, or floors, I even use all natural carpet cleaner so as not to >cause skin problems with my danes as other carpet products do cause them >irritation. Makes a difference. They say nutraweet is safe too, but I >don’t drink diet drinks! Don’t trust these industries. Kim
Again- I am not saying this to defend Febreze, but because of my general annoyance (I’m a science teacher) at faulty decision-making on science issues. Some examples: Here is chemical safety information for one chemical: TOXIC; inhalation, ingestion, or skin contact with material may cause severe injury or death. Contact with molten substance may cause severe burns to skin and eyes. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. What’s this substance? Would you dare use it around your dogs? It’s sodium hypochlorite- the active component in household chlorine bleach. Of course, for household use it’s diluted to such a degree as to not pose the types of hazards listed above. How about this one? Highly toxic, may be fatal if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through skin. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. Would you feed it to your dogs? You’d better- it’s sodium selenite, an essential trace mineral. yet, in large quantities, it’s highly toxic. One last one: "Symptoms of chronic overdose include fatigue, malaise, lethargy, abdominal discomfort, anorexia and vomiting. Skeletal effects include slow growth, hard tender cortical thickening over the radius and tibia,migratory arthralgia and premature closing of the epiphysis. Central nervous system effects include irritability, headache and increased intracranial pressure as manifested by bulging fontanels, papilledema and exophthalmos. Dermatologic effects include fissures of the lips, drying and cracking of the skin, alopecia, scaling, massive desquamation and increased pigmentation. Systemic effects include hypomenorrhea, hepatosplenomegaly, jaundice, leukopenia and vitamin A plasma level over 1200 units [159]. Other effects include painful nodular periosteal swelling, osteoporosis, itching, skin eruptions, ulcerations, drowsiness, alopecia, liver enlargement, diplopia and papilledema [301]." Would you feed this to your dogs? Again, you’d better- it’s Vitamin A. I am *not* advocating willy-nilly use of chemicals around our dogs. What I am advocating is the abandonment of alarmism and the substitution of knowledge. Most of us are just too afraid of what we don’t know much about. Cris Waller Visit the Predator Defense Institute website! http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/pdi/index.htm Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html
Response:
yes, but are you laying around on this stuff, or is it rinsed or on counters, or floors, I even use all natural carpet cleaner so as not to cause skin problems with my danes as other carpet products do cause them irritation. Makes a difference. They say nutraweet is safe too, but I don’t drink diet drinks! Don’t trust these industries. Kim
Response:
>Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe >skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form
So are many other substances that are commonly used in everday products. The important factor is the dilution. Cris Waller Visit the Predator Defense Institute website! http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/pdi/index.htm Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html
Response:
figures… just when I find a product I like…. 
Sue and Jadeepup — remove _ before emailing "although every dog deserves a home, not every home deserves a dog" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe > skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to > believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing > the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
Response:
Thanks for the info. I bought a bottle of Febreeze and wished I had used it outside. It stunk up the house something awfull. Hello! I could have done that with cheap perfume. Ack, ack. I thought I was going to have to go back to using Lysol…or a gas mask. Tammy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >snipage >Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this >stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as >a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew >as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff >eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, >it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and >under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They >sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use >more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like >animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. >And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a >year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, >you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large >garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves >ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to >the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s >safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want >to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As >I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. >The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is >512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the >prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call >or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. >Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. >Barbara
Response:
> I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc > chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
Yes it is. Gwen
Response:
I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc > chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets > or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know > amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
This product does contain a small amount of zinc chloride! It is not listed because the amount it contains is so minimal that it is not required. P&G is aware of this because there have been WAY too many persons on rec.pets.birds who have called and asked, as well as complained about this product. I will try to find the posting in rec.pets.birds that shows the amount that P&G claim this product has in it and post it to this NG. Gwen
Response:
I got this from a friendly researcher via email today – her name snipped to protect the innocent 
thought you would all find it interesting! Nancy Hi Nancy, I received a response from the Proctor & Gamble folks today…attached below. They were totally unaware of any problems with the product, but they are apparently going to be looking into this. If I hear more, will keep you posted. Maybe another urban legend has been born??? Subj: Re: Mail from P&G Products Site Thanks for your message, We are very concerned about the reports you mentioned and are already looking into the details. In the meantime, though, be assured both the ingredients in Febreze and its formula have been thoroughly researched. In fact, many of the ingredients are similar to those used in other cleaning and health products. If you are not familiar with Febreze, it is designed to be sprayed directly on fabrics and not spritzed in the air like an air freshener. For more information about Febreze, please visit our website at http://www.febreze.com. Mary, USA Febreze Team
Response:
actually I find Odor Mute works well on all the things you mention and is not toxic to anything I have found yet except odors Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source > I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track > back the complaints > However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which > means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume > is a big no no when you are allergic to it! > I can’t use perfumed product either, for the same reason, > and use a great unscented alternative. Don’t want to sound > like a commmercial, but probably will, I’m really enthusiastic > about this product. Probably get flamed for just trying to > help (not posting my addy for that reason), but honest, this is > completely unsolicited consumer testimony, I DON’T sell the > stuff OR get anything at all for telling you this. Heck, they > don’t even know I love it so much! > Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this > stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as > a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew > as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff > eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, > it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and > under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They > sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use > more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like > animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. > And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a > year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, > you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large > garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves > ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to > the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s > safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want > to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As > I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. > The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is > 512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the > prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call > or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. > Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. > Barbara
Response:
> cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source > I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track > back the complaints > However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which > means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume > is a big no no when you are allergic to it!
I can’t use perfumed product either, for the same reason, and use a great unscented alternative. Don’t want to sound like a commmercial, but probably will, I’m really enthusiastic about this product. Probably get flamed for just trying to help (not posting my addy for that reason), but honest, this is completely unsolicited consumer testimony, I DON’T sell the stuff OR get anything at all for telling you this. Heck, they don’t even know I love it so much! Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is 512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. Barbara
Response:
I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
Response:
> I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc > chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets > or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know > amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
Funny, I just read the label on the bottle: "Contains odor neutralizers, quality control agents, perfume and water." That’s all! You would think they would at least list the "agents"! I have used it in the past, and my dogs are fine. (they avoid the chair/couch when it’s still wet, but as soon as it’s dry, they’re back up relaxing and sleeping) — |||/ (0-0) Nola J .oooO ( ) Oooo. _) ) / (_/
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cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track back the complaints However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume is a big no no when you are allergic to it! Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on > the development team for this product posted a response when this was > forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with > animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the > public market. > Darlene Hernandez > Landmark Tervuren
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> > this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on > the development team for this product posted a response when this was > forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with > animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the > public market.
I use the product on a regular basis (once a month on couch and chairs) and have seen no adverse conditions in my dogs. (it was even recomended to me by my vet!) — |||/ (0-0) Nola J .oooO ( ) Oooo. _) ) / (_/
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I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
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> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating?
I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on the development team for this product posted a response when this was forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the public market. Darlene Hernandez Landmark Tervuren
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > Nancy > Attention – I spammed this for maximum exposure – so be warned and choose > how you prefer to answer in one group or all of them >> from another list… >> Forward begin……. >> <<<<<<I got this post off of one of my exotics lists, >> A new product by Proctor and Gamble, and how the product is killing many >> pet birds. However, 2 of the reports I have received were from owners >> who had sprayed their doggie beds with the product. In both of those >> cases, not only did their birds die, but their dogs became violently >> ill. >>>> >> <<<Oh my lord! I had no idea it was effecting dogs as well. The dangers >> of Febreeze hit the bird lists a couple weeks ago and the original >> person who had the problem lost several birds when the product was >> sprayed on furniture in the NEXT room! She immediately vetted her sick >> birds and he called the company and their chemist called back and said >> the product had Zinc Chloride in it and admitted they tested it on dogs >> and cats but not birds. Obviously, if it’s effecting dogs, the chemist >> lied to that vet. There is immense publicity on all my bird lists as >> well as all over the bird club newsletters thanks to the internet >> warnings from a few weeks ago. I’ll now tell ppl that it effects ALL >> pets
Im not a Vet. But I had a bird once, and in self defense I bought a rather large expensive book on the subject and tried to educate myself about birds. The list of things that are poison to birds from common household products to plants fills four pages of small type. Just a random sample; oven cleaner, nail polish, crayons, hair dyes, pine oil, furniture polish, dishwasher detergent, spot remover, spray starch and on and on and on. The list of plants harmful to birds is so long it makes one wonder how they ever survive on planet earth. My point is, if you are going to have a bird you will have to educate yourself and be careful. You can’t expect the world to make every product safe for birds or even bother to mention that it is not. I doubt if your oven cleaner or nail polish says anything about being harmful to birds. I have no love for Procter & Gamble and I boycot their products when I have a choice for the very reason that they test products on animals. As you see above it did not bother them to spray the stuff on dogs & cats regardless of the consequenses. I know that medical and product testing on animals is sometimes a necessary evil. I just think it should be the choice of last resort and not the cheap first choice as it is with so many corporations like Procter & Gamble. I will now yield my soap box to any one who cares to comment. Good luck with the birds & God bless. Aloha charles
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this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it helps anyones pet’s then its worth while Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? Nancy Attention – I spammed this for maximum exposure – so be warned and choose how you prefer to answer in one group or all of them – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> from another list… > Forward begin……. > <<<<<<I got this post off of one of my exotics lists, > A new product by Proctor and Gamble, and how the product is killing many > pet birds. However, 2 of the reports I have received were from owners > who had sprayed their doggie beds with the product. In both of those > cases, not only did their birds die, but their dogs became violently > ill. >>>> > <<<Oh my lord! I had no idea it was effecting dogs as well. The dangers > of Febreeze hit the bird lists a couple weeks ago and the original > person who had the problem lost several birds when the product was > sprayed on furniture in the NEXT room! She immediately vetted her sick > birds and he called the company and their chemist called back and said > the product had Zinc Chloride in it and admitted they tested it on dogs > and cats but not birds. Obviously, if it’s effecting dogs, the chemist > lied to that vet. There is immense publicity on all my bird lists as > well as all over the bird club newsletters thanks to the internet > warnings from a few weeks ago. I’ll now tell ppl that it effects ALL > pets
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I have my bottle of Febreeze right here and I don’t see ANY ingredients listed at all. I DO know that I have used it on my comforter to get dog smell off and it worked great – no problems from my beagles laying all over that same comforter after it had dried. Not even any problems from them sneezing (like they do commonly from powders that you sprinkle on carpets etc – they have very sensitive noses). I could be wrong here, but Zinc Chloride sounds like the stuff that I find in vitamins that contain the "essential" element zinc. I don’t think there is anything to worry about with Febreeze – nor do I worry about allowing my body to touch fabrics cleaned with bleach, or sodas with Nutrasweet (Saccharin is FAR worse, and thank God Nutrasweet exists for all the Diabetics out there!). I don’t think anyone else should worry either – but if you SHOULD be concerned – just don’t use the product. Don’t try to scare the whole world with urban legends.
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ah but is is urban legends when people’s pets actually die from it? think of Rimadyl, and that awful Hartz product for flea control that killed so many pets! cast your mind backwards and think of thalidomide – all rated perfectly safe except they are apparently not quite that… as for nutrasweet – what I have read on *that* product makes me glad that the first time I tried it my mouth broke out in massive sores teaching me never to willingly use it again! more recent accidental ingestion caused me massive digestive upset until I read the fine print in the food I had added to my diet. Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have my bottle of Febreeze right here and I don’t see ANY ingredients > listed at all. I DO know that I have used it on my comforter to get dog > smell off and it worked great – no problems from my beagles laying all over > that same comforter after it had dried. Not even any problems from them > sneezing (like they do commonly from powders that you sprinkle on carpets > etc – they have very sensitive noses). > I could be wrong here, but Zinc Chloride sounds like the stuff that I find > in vitamins that contain the "essential" element zinc. I don’t think there > is anything to worry about with Febreeze – nor do I worry about allowing my > body to touch fabrics cleaned with bleach, or sodas with Nutrasweet > (Saccharin is FAR worse, and thank God Nutrasweet exists for all the > Diabetics out there!). I don’t think anyone else should worry either – but > if you SHOULD be concerned – just don’t use the product. Don’t try to scare > the whole world with urban legends.
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Some of us ARE worriers and some are not, some of us tend to avoid what we believe may be a potential problem while others take a wait and see attitude, this is what makes humans unique. Do not judge because I choose to avoid a chemical I do not want in my home, because 10 years from now (they probably said everything you are saying about asbestos too)when it is found to be a problem you will be eating crow. Never say never!Kim
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Chris, Sorry, but I still disagree. Does my dog lay around on even diluted bleach surfaces- no. The other two substances must be overdosed but are necessary to life to cause problems same with Vit. e but I don’t take mega doses but I do take it in moderation. I do not NEED Zinc Chloride to live, nor do my dogs. I have used products for odor control on carpet that stated "for dogs" and had nothing but red skin on my harliquin for weeks after. Myself and many others in the dane community are very careful what goes in and around our danes and if it isn’t necessary, it isn’t going in them or around them. Put it this way I do not even us fabric softener products liquid or towels because it gives me skin problems. Put it this way, there are very few drugs that are not potentially dangerous if overdosed, even tylenol or aspirin, as many vitimins are toxix in large quantities but I’m not gulping them down and I’n not going to have my kids nor my dogs laying around in something that is a known irritant if I can find a natural solution instead. Why would I even take that chance?Kim
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> Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe > skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to > believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing > the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
@% – even water is toxic if you drink too much! Get a grip people, it is the concentration and form of the chemical that determines whether it is good for you or bad for you. Practically every element known has been found to have some role in biochemistry. Sheesh! Now if you find that the concentration and form used in the product is close to that found to be dangerous – THEN worry. WBB
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> > I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc > chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
That sounds like another urban legend – zinc is an essential nutrient in low doses, toxic in high doses. Zinc chloride is just a soluble form of zinc, nothing magic there. WBB
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Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
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>yes, but are you laying around on this stuff, or is it rinsed or on >counters, or floors, I even use all natural carpet cleaner so as not to >cause skin problems with my danes as other carpet products do cause them >irritation. Makes a difference. They say nutraweet is safe too, but I >don’t drink diet drinks! Don’t trust these industries. Kim
Again- I am not saying this to defend Febreze, but because of my general annoyance (I’m a science teacher) at faulty decision-making on science issues. Some examples: Here is chemical safety information for one chemical: TOXIC; inhalation, ingestion, or skin contact with material may cause severe injury or death. Contact with molten substance may cause severe burns to skin and eyes. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. What’s this substance? Would you dare use it around your dogs? It’s sodium hypochlorite- the active component in household chlorine bleach. Of course, for household use it’s diluted to such a degree as to not pose the types of hazards listed above. How about this one? Highly toxic, may be fatal if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through skin. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. Would you feed it to your dogs? You’d better- it’s sodium selenite, an essential trace mineral. yet, in large quantities, it’s highly toxic. One last one: "Symptoms of chronic overdose include fatigue, malaise, lethargy, abdominal discomfort, anorexia and vomiting. Skeletal effects include slow growth, hard tender cortical thickening over the radius and tibia,migratory arthralgia and premature closing of the epiphysis. Central nervous system effects include irritability, headache and increased intracranial pressure as manifested by bulging fontanels, papilledema and exophthalmos. Dermatologic effects include fissures of the lips, drying and cracking of the skin, alopecia, scaling, massive desquamation and increased pigmentation. Systemic effects include hypomenorrhea, hepatosplenomegaly, jaundice, leukopenia and vitamin A plasma level over 1200 units [159]. Other effects include painful nodular periosteal swelling, osteoporosis, itching, skin eruptions, ulcerations, drowsiness, alopecia, liver enlargement, diplopia and papilledema [301]." Would you feed this to your dogs? Again, you’d better- it’s Vitamin A. I am *not* advocating willy-nilly use of chemicals around our dogs. What I am advocating is the abandonment of alarmism and the substitution of knowledge. Most of us are just too afraid of what we don’t know much about. Cris Waller Visit the Predator Defense Institute website! http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/pdi/index.htm Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html
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yes, but are you laying around on this stuff, or is it rinsed or on counters, or floors, I even use all natural carpet cleaner so as not to cause skin problems with my danes as other carpet products do cause them irritation. Makes a difference. They say nutraweet is safe too, but I don’t drink diet drinks! Don’t trust these industries. Kim
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>Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe >skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form
So are many other substances that are commonly used in everday products. The important factor is the dilution. Cris Waller Visit the Predator Defense Institute website! http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/pdi/index.htm Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html
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figures… just when I find a product I like…. Sue and Jadeepup — remove _ before emailing "although every dog deserves a home, not every home deserves a dog" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe > skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to > believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing > the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
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Thanks for the info. I bought a bottle of Febreeze and wished I had used it outside. It stunk up the house something awfull. Hello! I could have done that with cheap perfume. Ack, ack. I thought I was going to have to go back to using Lysol…or a gas mask. Tammy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >snipage >Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this >stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as >a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew >as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff >eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, >it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and >under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They >sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use >more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like >animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. >And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a >year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, >you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large >garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves >ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to >the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s >safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want >to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As >I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. >The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is >512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the >prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call >or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. >Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. >Barbara
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> I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc > chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
Yes it is. Gwen
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I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc > chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets > or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know > amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
This product does contain a small amount of zinc chloride! It is not listed because the amount it contains is so minimal that it is not required. P&G is aware of this because there have been WAY too many persons on rec.pets.birds who have called and asked, as well as complained about this product. I will try to find the posting in rec.pets.birds that shows the amount that P&G claim this product has in it and post it to this NG. Gwen
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I got this from a friendly researcher via email today – her name snipped to protect the innocent thought you would all find it interesting! Nancy Hi Nancy, I received a response from the Proctor & Gamble folks today…attached below. They were totally unaware of any problems with the product, but they are apparently going to be looking into this. If I hear more, will keep you posted. Maybe another urban legend has been born??? Subj: Re: Mail from P&G Products Site Thanks for your message, We are very concerned about the reports you mentioned and are already looking into the details. In the meantime, though, be assured both the ingredients in Febreze and its formula have been thoroughly researched. In fact, many of the ingredients are similar to those used in other cleaning and health products. If you are not familiar with Febreze, it is designed to be sprayed directly on fabrics and not spritzed in the air like an air freshener. For more information about Febreze, please visit our website at http://www.febreze.com. Mary, USA Febreze Team
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actually I find Odor Mute works well on all the things you mention and is not toxic to anything I have found yet except odors Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source > I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track > back the complaints > However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which > means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume > is a big no no when you are allergic to it! > I can’t use perfumed product either, for the same reason, > and use a great unscented alternative. Don’t want to sound > like a commmercial, but probably will, I’m really enthusiastic > about this product. Probably get flamed for just trying to > help (not posting my addy for that reason), but honest, this is > completely unsolicited consumer testimony, I DON’T sell the > stuff OR get anything at all for telling you this. Heck, they > don’t even know I love it so much! > Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this > stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as > a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew > as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff > eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, > it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and > under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They > sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use > more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like > animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. > And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a > year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, > you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large > garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves > ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to > the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s > safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want > to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As > I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. > The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is > 512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the > prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call > or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. > Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. > Barbara
Response:
> cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source > I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track > back the complaints > However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which > means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume > is a big no no when you are allergic to it!
I can’t use perfumed product either, for the same reason, and use a great unscented alternative. Don’t want to sound like a commmercial, but probably will, I’m really enthusiastic about this product. Probably get flamed for just trying to help (not posting my addy for that reason), but honest, this is completely unsolicited consumer testimony, I DON’T sell the stuff OR get anything at all for telling you this. Heck, they don’t even know I love it so much! Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is 512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. Barbara
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I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
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> I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc > chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets > or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know > amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
Funny, I just read the label on the bottle: "Contains odor neutralizers, quality control agents, perfume and water." That’s all! You would think they would at least list the "agents"! I have used it in the past, and my dogs are fine. (they avoid the chair/couch when it’s still wet, but as soon as it’s dry, they’re back up relaxing and sleeping) — |||/ (0-0) Nola J .oooO ( ) Oooo. _) ) / (_/
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cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track back the complaints However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume is a big no no when you are allergic to it! Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on > the development team for this product posted a response when this was > forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with > animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the > public market. > Darlene Hernandez > Landmark Tervuren
Response:
> > this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on > the development team for this product posted a response when this was > forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with > animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the > public market.
I use the product on a regular basis (once a month on couch and chairs) and have seen no adverse conditions in my dogs. (it was even recomended to me by my vet!) — |||/ (0-0) Nola J .oooO ( ) Oooo. _) ) / (_/
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I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
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> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating?
I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on the development team for this product posted a response when this was forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the public market. Darlene Hernandez Landmark Tervuren
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > Nancy > Attention – I spammed this for maximum exposure – so be warned and choose > how you prefer to answer in one group or all of them >> from another list… >> Forward begin……. >> <<<<<<I got this post off of one of my exotics lists, >> A new product by Proctor and Gamble, and how the product is killing many >> pet birds. However, 2 of the reports I have received were from owners >> who had sprayed their doggie beds with the product. In both of those >> cases, not only did their birds die, but their dogs became violently >> ill. >>>> >> <<<Oh my lord! I had no idea it was effecting dogs as well. The dangers >> of Febreeze hit the bird lists a couple weeks ago and the original >> person who had the problem lost several birds when the product was >> sprayed on furniture in the NEXT room! She immediately vetted her sick >> birds and he called the company and their chemist called back and said >> the product had Zinc Chloride in it and admitted they tested it on dogs >> and cats but not birds. Obviously, if it’s effecting dogs, the chemist >> lied to that vet. There is immense publicity on all my bird lists as >> well as all over the bird club newsletters thanks to the internet >> warnings from a few weeks ago. I’ll now tell ppl that it effects ALL >> pets
Im not a Vet. But I had a bird once, and in self defense I bought a rather large expensive book on the subject and tried to educate myself about birds. The list of things that are poison to birds from common household products to plants fills four pages of small type. Just a random sample; oven cleaner, nail polish, crayons, hair dyes, pine oil, furniture polish, dishwasher detergent, spot remover, spray starch and on and on and on. The list of plants harmful to birds is so long it makes one wonder how they ever survive on planet earth. My point is, if you are going to have a bird you will have to educate yourself and be careful. You can’t expect the world to make every product safe for birds or even bother to mention that it is not. I doubt if your oven cleaner or nail polish says anything about being harmful to birds. I have no love for Procter & Gamble and I boycot their products when I have a choice for the very reason that they test products on animals. As you see above it did not bother them to spray the stuff on dogs & cats regardless of the consequenses. I know that medical and product testing on animals is sometimes a necessary evil. I just think it should be the choice of last resort and not the cheap first choice as it is with so many corporations like Procter & Gamble. I will now yield my soap box to any one who cares to comment. Good luck with the birds & God bless. Aloha charles
Response:
this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it helps anyones pet’s then its worth while Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? Nancy Attention – I spammed this for maximum exposure – so be warned and choose how you prefer to answer in one group or all of them – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> from another list… > Forward begin……. > <<<<<<I got this post off of one of my exotics lists, > A new product by Proctor and Gamble, and how the product is killing many > pet birds. However, 2 of the reports I have received were from owners > who had sprayed their doggie beds with the product. In both of those > cases, not only did their birds die, but their dogs became violently > ill. >>>> > <<<Oh my lord! I had no idea it was effecting dogs as well. The dangers > of Febreeze hit the bird lists a couple weeks ago and the original > person who had the problem lost several birds when the product was > sprayed on furniture in the NEXT room! She immediately vetted her sick > birds and he called the company and their chemist called back and said > the product had Zinc Chloride in it and admitted they tested it on dogs > and cats but not birds. Obviously, if it’s effecting dogs, the chemist > lied to that vet. There is immense publicity on all my bird lists as > well as all over the bird club newsletters thanks to the internet > warnings from a few weeks ago. I’ll now tell ppl that it effects ALL > pets
Response:
January 4, 1999
Question:
I have my bottle of Febreeze right here and I don’t see ANY ingredients listed at all. I DO know that I have used it on my comforter to get dog smell off and it worked great – no problems from my beagles laying all over that same comforter after it had dried. Not even any problems from them sneezing (like they do commonly from powders that you sprinkle on carpets etc – they have very sensitive noses). I could be wrong here, but Zinc Chloride sounds like the stuff that I find in vitamins that contain the "essential" element zinc. I don’t think there is anything to worry about with Febreeze – nor do I worry about allowing my body to touch fabrics cleaned with bleach, or sodas with Nutrasweet (Saccharin is FAR worse, and thank God Nutrasweet exists for all the Diabetics out there!). I don’t think anyone else should worry either – but if you SHOULD be concerned – just don’t use the product. Don’t try to scare the whole world with urban legends.
Response:
ah but is is urban legends when people’s pets actually die from it? think of Rimadyl, and that awful Hartz product for flea control that killed so many pets! cast your mind backwards and think of thalidomide – all rated perfectly safe except they are apparently not quite that… as for nutrasweet – what I have read on *that* product makes me glad that the first time I tried it my mouth broke out in massive sores teaching me never to willingly use it again! more recent accidental ingestion caused me massive digestive upset until I read the fine print in the food I had added to my diet. Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have my bottle of Febreeze right here and I don’t see ANY ingredients > listed at all. I DO know that I have used it on my comforter to get dog > smell off and it worked great – no problems from my beagles laying all over > that same comforter after it had dried. Not even any problems from them > sneezing (like they do commonly from powders that you sprinkle on carpets > etc – they have very sensitive noses). > I could be wrong here, but Zinc Chloride sounds like the stuff that I find > in vitamins that contain the "essential" element zinc. I don’t think there > is anything to worry about with Febreeze – nor do I worry about allowing my > body to touch fabrics cleaned with bleach, or sodas with Nutrasweet > (Saccharin is FAR worse, and thank God Nutrasweet exists for all the > Diabetics out there!). I don’t think anyone else should worry either – but > if you SHOULD be concerned – just don’t use the product. Don’t try to scare > the whole world with urban legends.
Response:
Some of us ARE worriers and some are not, some of us tend to avoid what we believe may be a potential problem while others take a wait and see attitude, this is what makes humans unique. Do not judge because I choose to avoid a chemical I do not want in my home, because 10 years from now (they probably said everything you are saying about asbestos too)when it is found to be a problem you will be eating crow. Never say never!Kim
Response:
Chris, Sorry, but I still disagree. Does my dog lay around on even diluted bleach surfaces- no. The other two substances must be overdosed but are necessary to life to cause problems same with Vit. e but I don’t take mega doses but I do take it in moderation. I do not NEED Zinc Chloride to live, nor do my dogs. I have used products for odor control on carpet that stated "for dogs" and had nothing but red skin on my harliquin for weeks after. Myself and many others in the dane community are very careful what goes in and around our danes and if it isn’t necessary, it isn’t going in them or around them. Put it this way I do not even us fabric softener products liquid or towels because it gives me skin problems. Put it this way, there are very few drugs that are not potentially dangerous if overdosed, even tylenol or aspirin, as many vitimins are toxix in large quantities but I’m not gulping them down and I’n not going to have my kids nor my dogs laying around in something that is a known irritant if I can find a natural solution instead. Why would I even take that chance?Kim
Response:
> Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe > skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to > believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing > the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
@% – even water is toxic if you drink too much! Get a grip people, it is the concentration and form of the chemical that determines whether it is good for you or bad for you. Practically every element known has been found to have some role in biochemistry. Sheesh! Now if you find that the concentration and form used in the product is close to that found to be dangerous – THEN worry. WBB
Response:
> > I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc > chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
That sounds like another urban legend – zinc is an essential nutrient in low doses, toxic in high doses. Zinc chloride is just a soluble form of zinc, nothing magic there. WBB
Response:
Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
Response:
>yes, but are you laying around on this stuff, or is it rinsed or on >counters, or floors, I even use all natural carpet cleaner so as not to >cause skin problems with my danes as other carpet products do cause them >irritation. Makes a difference. They say nutraweet is safe too, but I >don’t drink diet drinks! Don’t trust these industries. Kim
Again- I am not saying this to defend Febreze, but because of my general annoyance (I’m a science teacher) at faulty decision-making on science issues. Some examples: Here is chemical safety information for one chemical: TOXIC; inhalation, ingestion, or skin contact with material may cause severe injury or death. Contact with molten substance may cause severe burns to skin and eyes. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. What’s this substance? Would you dare use it around your dogs? It’s sodium hypochlorite- the active component in household chlorine bleach. Of course, for household use it’s diluted to such a degree as to not pose the types of hazards listed above. How about this one? Highly toxic, may be fatal if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through skin. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. Would you feed it to your dogs? You’d better- it’s sodium selenite, an essential trace mineral. yet, in large quantities, it’s highly toxic. One last one: "Symptoms of chronic overdose include fatigue, malaise, lethargy, abdominal discomfort, anorexia and vomiting. Skeletal effects include slow growth, hard tender cortical thickening over the radius and tibia,migratory arthralgia and premature closing of the epiphysis. Central nervous system effects include irritability, headache and increased intracranial pressure as manifested by bulging fontanels, papilledema and exophthalmos. Dermatologic effects include fissures of the lips, drying and cracking of the skin, alopecia, scaling, massive desquamation and increased pigmentation. Systemic effects include hypomenorrhea, hepatosplenomegaly, jaundice, leukopenia and vitamin A plasma level over 1200 units [159]. Other effects include painful nodular periosteal swelling, osteoporosis, itching, skin eruptions, ulcerations, drowsiness, alopecia, liver enlargement, diplopia and papilledema [301]." Would you feed this to your dogs? Again, you’d better- it’s Vitamin A. I am *not* advocating willy-nilly use of chemicals around our dogs. What I am advocating is the abandonment of alarmism and the substitution of knowledge. Most of us are just too afraid of what we don’t know much about. Cris Waller Visit the Predator Defense Institute website! http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/pdi/index.htm Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html
Response:
yes, but are you laying around on this stuff, or is it rinsed or on counters, or floors, I even use all natural carpet cleaner so as not to cause skin problems with my danes as other carpet products do cause them irritation. Makes a difference. They say nutraweet is safe too, but I don’t drink diet drinks! Don’t trust these industries. Kim
Response:
>Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe >skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form
So are many other substances that are commonly used in everday products. The important factor is the dilution. Cris Waller Visit the Predator Defense Institute website! http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/pdi/index.htm Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html
Response:
figures… just when I find a product I like…. Sue and Jadeepup — remove _ before emailing "although every dog deserves a home, not every home deserves a dog" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe > skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to > believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing > the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
Response:
Thanks for the info. I bought a bottle of Febreeze and wished I had used it outside. It stunk up the house something awfull. Hello! I could have done that with cheap perfume. Ack, ack. I thought I was going to have to go back to using Lysol…or a gas mask. Tammy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >snipage >Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this >stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as >a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew >as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff >eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, >it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and >under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They >sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use >more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like >animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. >And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a >year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, >you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large >garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves >ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to >the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s >safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want >to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As >I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. >The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is >512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the >prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call >or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. >Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. >Barbara
Response:
> I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc > chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
Yes it is. Gwen
Response:
I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc > chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets > or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know > amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
This product does contain a small amount of zinc chloride! It is not listed because the amount it contains is so minimal that it is not required. P&G is aware of this because there have been WAY too many persons on rec.pets.birds who have called and asked, as well as complained about this product. I will try to find the posting in rec.pets.birds that shows the amount that P&G claim this product has in it and post it to this NG. Gwen
Response:
I got this from a friendly researcher via email today – her name snipped to protect the innocent thought you would all find it interesting! Nancy Hi Nancy, I received a response from the Proctor & Gamble folks today…attached below. They were totally unaware of any problems with the product, but they are apparently going to be looking into this. If I hear more, will keep you posted. Maybe another urban legend has been born??? Subj: Re: Mail from P&G Products Site Thanks for your message, We are very concerned about the reports you mentioned and are already looking into the details. In the meantime, though, be assured both the ingredients in Febreze and its formula have been thoroughly researched. In fact, many of the ingredients are similar to those used in other cleaning and health products. If you are not familiar with Febreze, it is designed to be sprayed directly on fabrics and not spritzed in the air like an air freshener. For more information about Febreze, please visit our website at http://www.febreze.com. Mary, USA Febreze Team
Response:
actually I find Odor Mute works well on all the things you mention and is not toxic to anything I have found yet except odors Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source > I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track > back the complaints > However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which > means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume > is a big no no when you are allergic to it! > I can’t use perfumed product either, for the same reason, > and use a great unscented alternative. Don’t want to sound > like a commmercial, but probably will, I’m really enthusiastic > about this product. Probably get flamed for just trying to > help (not posting my addy for that reason), but honest, this is > completely unsolicited consumer testimony, I DON’T sell the > stuff OR get anything at all for telling you this. Heck, they > don’t even know I love it so much! > Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this > stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as > a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew > as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff > eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, > it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and > under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They > sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use > more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like > animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. > And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a > year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, > you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large > garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves > ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to > the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s > safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want > to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As > I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. > The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is > 512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the > prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call > or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. > Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. > Barbara
Response:
> cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source > I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track > back the complaints > However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which > means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume > is a big no no when you are allergic to it!
I can’t use perfumed product either, for the same reason, and use a great unscented alternative. Don’t want to sound like a commmercial, but probably will, I’m really enthusiastic about this product. Probably get flamed for just trying to help (not posting my addy for that reason), but honest, this is completely unsolicited consumer testimony, I DON’T sell the stuff OR get anything at all for telling you this. Heck, they don’t even know I love it so much! Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is 512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. Barbara
Response:
I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
Response:
> I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc > chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets > or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know > amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
Funny, I just read the label on the bottle: "Contains odor neutralizers, quality control agents, perfume and water." That’s all! You would think they would at least list the "agents"! I have used it in the past, and my dogs are fine. (they avoid the chair/couch when it’s still wet, but as soon as it’s dry, they’re back up relaxing and sleeping) — |||/ (0-0) Nola J .oooO ( ) Oooo. _) ) / (_/
Response:
cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track back the complaints However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume is a big no no when you are allergic to it! Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on > the development team for this product posted a response when this was > forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with > animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the > public market. > Darlene Hernandez > Landmark Tervuren
Response:
> > this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on > the development team for this product posted a response when this was > forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with > animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the > public market.
I use the product on a regular basis (once a month on couch and chairs) and have seen no adverse conditions in my dogs. (it was even recomended to me by my vet!) — |||/ (0-0) Nola J .oooO ( ) Oooo. _) ) / (_/
Response:
I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
Response:
> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating?
I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on the development team for this product posted a response when this was forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the public market. Darlene Hernandez Landmark Tervuren
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > Nancy > Attention – I spammed this for maximum exposure – so be warned and choose > how you prefer to answer in one group or all of them >> from another list… >> Forward begin……. >> <<<<<<I got this post off of one of my exotics lists, >> A new product by Proctor and Gamble, and how the product is killing many >> pet birds. However, 2 of the reports I have received were from owners >> who had sprayed their doggie beds with the product. In both of those >> cases, not only did their birds die, but their dogs became violently >> ill. >>>> >> <<<Oh my lord! I had no idea it was effecting dogs as well. The dangers >> of Febreeze hit the bird lists a couple weeks ago and the original >> person who had the problem lost several birds when the product was >> sprayed on furniture in the NEXT room! She immediately vetted her sick >> birds and he called the company and their chemist called back and said >> the product had Zinc Chloride in it and admitted they tested it on dogs >> and cats but not birds. Obviously, if it’s effecting dogs, the chemist >> lied to that vet. There is immense publicity on all my bird lists as >> well as all over the bird club newsletters thanks to the internet >> warnings from a few weeks ago. I’ll now tell ppl that it effects ALL >> pets
Im not a Vet. But I had a bird once, and in self defense I bought a rather large expensive book on the subject and tried to educate myself about birds. The list of things that are poison to birds from common household products to plants fills four pages of small type. Just a random sample; oven cleaner, nail polish, crayons, hair dyes, pine oil, furniture polish, dishwasher detergent, spot remover, spray starch and on and on and on. The list of plants harmful to birds is so long it makes one wonder how they ever survive on planet earth. My point is, if you are going to have a bird you will have to educate yourself and be careful. You can’t expect the world to make every product safe for birds or even bother to mention that it is not. I doubt if your oven cleaner or nail polish says anything about being harmful to birds. I have no love for Procter & Gamble and I boycot their products when I have a choice for the very reason that they test products on animals. As you see above it did not bother them to spray the stuff on dogs & cats regardless of the consequenses. I know that medical and product testing on animals is sometimes a necessary evil. I just think it should be the choice of last resort and not the cheap first choice as it is with so many corporations like Procter & Gamble. I will now yield my soap box to any one who cares to comment. Good luck with the birds & God bless. Aloha charles
Response:
this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it helps anyones pet’s then its worth while Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? Nancy Attention – I spammed this for maximum exposure – so be warned and choose how you prefer to answer in one group or all of them – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> from another list… > Forward begin……. > <<<<<<I got this post off of one of my exotics lists, > A new product by Proctor and Gamble, and how the product is killing many > pet birds. However, 2 of the reports I have received were from owners > who had sprayed their doggie beds with the product. In both of those > cases, not only did their birds die, but their dogs became violently > ill. >>>> > <<<Oh my lord! I had no idea it was effecting dogs as well. The dangers > of Febreeze hit the bird lists a couple weeks ago and the original > person who had the problem lost several birds when the product was > sprayed on furniture in the NEXT room! She immediately vetted her sick > birds and he called the company and their chemist called back and said > the product had Zinc Chloride in it and admitted they tested it on dogs > and cats but not birds. Obviously, if it’s effecting dogs, the chemist > lied to that vet. There is immense publicity on all my bird lists as > well as all over the bird club newsletters thanks to the internet > warnings from a few weeks ago. I’ll now tell ppl that it effects ALL > pets
Response:
I have my bottle of Febreeze right here and I don’t see ANY ingredients listed at all. I DO know that I have used it on my comforter to get dog smell off and it worked great – no problems from my beagles laying all over that same comforter after it had dried. Not even any problems from them sneezing (like they do commonly from powders that you sprinkle on carpets etc – they have very sensitive noses). I could be wrong here, but Zinc Chloride sounds like the stuff that I find in vitamins that contain the "essential" element zinc. I don’t think there is anything to worry about with Febreeze – nor do I worry about allowing my body to touch fabrics cleaned with bleach, or sodas with Nutrasweet (Saccharin is FAR worse, and thank God Nutrasweet exists for all the Diabetics out there!). I don’t think anyone else should worry either – but if you SHOULD be concerned – just don’t use the product. Don’t try to scare the whole world with urban legends.
Response:
ah but is is urban legends when people’s pets actually die from it? think of Rimadyl, and that awful Hartz product for flea control that killed so many pets! cast your mind backwards and think of thalidomide – all rated perfectly safe except they are apparently not quite that… as for nutrasweet – what I have read on *that* product makes me glad that the first time I tried it my mouth broke out in massive sores teaching me never to willingly use it again! more recent accidental ingestion caused me massive digestive upset until I read the fine print in the food I had added to my diet. Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have my bottle of Febreeze right here and I don’t see ANY ingredients > listed at all. I DO know that I have used it on my comforter to get dog > smell off and it worked great – no problems from my beagles laying all over > that same comforter after it had dried. Not even any problems from them > sneezing (like they do commonly from powders that you sprinkle on carpets > etc – they have very sensitive noses). > I could be wrong here, but Zinc Chloride sounds like the stuff that I find > in vitamins that contain the "essential" element zinc. I don’t think there > is anything to worry about with Febreeze – nor do I worry about allowing my > body to touch fabrics cleaned with bleach, or sodas with Nutrasweet > (Saccharin is FAR worse, and thank God Nutrasweet exists for all the > Diabetics out there!). I don’t think anyone else should worry either – but > if you SHOULD be concerned – just don’t use the product. Don’t try to scare > the whole world with urban legends.
Response:
Some of us ARE worriers and some are not, some of us tend to avoid what we believe may be a potential problem while others take a wait and see attitude, this is what makes humans unique. Do not judge because I choose to avoid a chemical I do not want in my home, because 10 years from now (they probably said everything you are saying about asbestos too)when it is found to be a problem you will be eating crow. Never say never!Kim
Response:
Chris, Sorry, but I still disagree. Does my dog lay around on even diluted bleach surfaces- no. The other two substances must be overdosed but are necessary to life to cause problems same with Vit. e but I don’t take mega doses but I do take it in moderation. I do not NEED Zinc Chloride to live, nor do my dogs. I have used products for odor control on carpet that stated "for dogs" and had nothing but red skin on my harliquin for weeks after. Myself and many others in the dane community are very careful what goes in and around our danes and if it isn’t necessary, it isn’t going in them or around them. Put it this way I do not even us fabric softener products liquid or towels because it gives me skin problems. Put it this way, there are very few drugs that are not potentially dangerous if overdosed, even tylenol or aspirin, as many vitimins are toxix in large quantities but I’m not gulping them down and I’n not going to have my kids nor my dogs laying around in something that is a known irritant if I can find a natural solution instead. Why would I even take that chance?Kim
Response:
> Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe > skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to > believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing > the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
@% – even water is toxic if you drink too much! Get a grip people, it is the concentration and form of the chemical that determines whether it is good for you or bad for you. Practically every element known has been found to have some role in biochemistry. Sheesh! Now if you find that the concentration and form used in the product is close to that found to be dangerous – THEN worry. WBB
Response:
> > I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc > chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
That sounds like another urban legend – zinc is an essential nutrient in low doses, toxic in high doses. Zinc chloride is just a soluble form of zinc, nothing magic there. WBB
Response:
Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
Response:
>yes, but are you laying around on this stuff, or is it rinsed or on >counters, or floors, I even use all natural carpet cleaner so as not to >cause skin problems with my danes as other carpet products do cause them >irritation. Makes a difference. They say nutraweet is safe too, but I >don’t drink diet drinks! Don’t trust these industries. Kim
Again- I am not saying this to defend Febreze, but because of my general annoyance (I’m a science teacher) at faulty decision-making on science issues. Some examples: Here is chemical safety information for one chemical: TOXIC; inhalation, ingestion, or skin contact with material may cause severe injury or death. Contact with molten substance may cause severe burns to skin and eyes. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. What’s this substance? Would you dare use it around your dogs? It’s sodium hypochlorite- the active component in household chlorine bleach. Of course, for household use it’s diluted to such a degree as to not pose the types of hazards listed above. How about this one? Highly toxic, may be fatal if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through skin. Avoid any skin contact. Effects of contact or inhalation may be delayed. Fire may produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases. Runoff from fire control or dilution water may be corrosive and/or toxic and cause pollution. Would you feed it to your dogs? You’d better- it’s sodium selenite, an essential trace mineral. yet, in large quantities, it’s highly toxic. One last one: "Symptoms of chronic overdose include fatigue, malaise, lethargy, abdominal discomfort, anorexia and vomiting. Skeletal effects include slow growth, hard tender cortical thickening over the radius and tibia,migratory arthralgia and premature closing of the epiphysis. Central nervous system effects include irritability, headache and increased intracranial pressure as manifested by bulging fontanels, papilledema and exophthalmos. Dermatologic effects include fissures of the lips, drying and cracking of the skin, alopecia, scaling, massive desquamation and increased pigmentation. Systemic effects include hypomenorrhea, hepatosplenomegaly, jaundice, leukopenia and vitamin A plasma level over 1200 units [159]. Other effects include painful nodular periosteal swelling, osteoporosis, itching, skin eruptions, ulcerations, drowsiness, alopecia, liver enlargement, diplopia and papilledema [301]." Would you feed this to your dogs? Again, you’d better- it’s Vitamin A. I am *not* advocating willy-nilly use of chemicals around our dogs. What I am advocating is the abandonment of alarmism and the substitution of knowledge. Most of us are just too afraid of what we don’t know much about. Cris Waller Visit the Predator Defense Institute website! http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/pdi/index.htm Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html
Response:
yes, but are you laying around on this stuff, or is it rinsed or on counters, or floors, I even use all natural carpet cleaner so as not to cause skin problems with my danes as other carpet products do cause them irritation. Makes a difference. They say nutraweet is safe too, but I don’t drink diet drinks! Don’t trust these industries. Kim
Response:
>Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe >skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form
So are many other substances that are commonly used in everday products. The important factor is the dilution. Cris Waller Visit the Predator Defense Institute website! http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/pdi/index.htm Flat-coated retriever art gallery http://members.tripod.com/antique_fcr/index.html
Response:
figures… just when I find a product I like…. Sue and Jadeepup — remove _ before emailing "although every dog deserves a home, not every home deserves a dog" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Go to www.pcc-chemical.com this website says zinc chloride is a severe > skin and tissue irritant in the liquid form! I’m truly beginning to > believe this is NOT a safe product, if you read more just from surfing > the web on zinc chloride it is truly scary. kim
Response:
Thanks for the info. I bought a bottle of Febreeze and wished I had used it outside. It stunk up the house something awfull. Hello! I could have done that with cheap perfume. Ack, ack. I thought I was going to have to go back to using Lysol…or a gas mask. Tammy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >snipage >Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this >stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as >a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew >as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff >eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, >it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and >under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They >sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use >more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like >animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. >And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a >year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, >you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large >garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves >ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to >the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s >safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want >to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As >I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. >The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is >512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the >prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call >or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. >Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. >Barbara
Response:
> I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc > chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
Yes it is. Gwen
Response:
I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc > chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets > or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know > amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
This product does contain a small amount of zinc chloride! It is not listed because the amount it contains is so minimal that it is not required. P&G is aware of this because there have been WAY too many persons on rec.pets.birds who have called and asked, as well as complained about this product. I will try to find the posting in rec.pets.birds that shows the amount that P&G claim this product has in it and post it to this NG. Gwen
Response:
I got this from a friendly researcher via email today – her name snipped to protect the innocent thought you would all find it interesting! Nancy Hi Nancy, I received a response from the Proctor & Gamble folks today…attached below. They were totally unaware of any problems with the product, but they are apparently going to be looking into this. If I hear more, will keep you posted. Maybe another urban legend has been born??? Subj: Re: Mail from P&G Products Site Thanks for your message, We are very concerned about the reports you mentioned and are already looking into the details. In the meantime, though, be assured both the ingredients in Febreze and its formula have been thoroughly researched. In fact, many of the ingredients are similar to those used in other cleaning and health products. If you are not familiar with Febreze, it is designed to be sprayed directly on fabrics and not spritzed in the air like an air freshener. For more information about Febreze, please visit our website at http://www.febreze.com. Mary, USA Febreze Team
Response:
actually I find Odor Mute works well on all the things you mention and is not toxic to anything I have found yet except odors Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source > I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track > back the complaints > However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which > means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume > is a big no no when you are allergic to it! > I can’t use perfumed product either, for the same reason, > and use a great unscented alternative. Don’t want to sound > like a commmercial, but probably will, I’m really enthusiastic > about this product. Probably get flamed for just trying to > help (not posting my addy for that reason), but honest, this is > completely unsolicited consumer testimony, I DON’T sell the > stuff OR get anything at all for telling you this. Heck, they > don’t even know I love it so much! > Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this > stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as > a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew > as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff > eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, > it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and > under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They > sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use > more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like > animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. > And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a > year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, > you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large > garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves > ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to > the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s > safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want > to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As > I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. > The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is > 512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the > prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call > or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. > Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. > Barbara
Response:
> cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source > I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track > back the complaints > However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which > means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume > is a big no no when you are allergic to it!
I can’t use perfumed product either, for the same reason, and use a great unscented alternative. Don’t want to sound like a commmercial, but probably will, I’m really enthusiastic about this product. Probably get flamed for just trying to help (not posting my addy for that reason), but honest, this is completely unsolicited consumer testimony, I DON’T sell the stuff OR get anything at all for telling you this. Heck, they don’t even know I love it so much! Company called Spray-N-Grow in Rockport Texas sells this stuff called Triple Action 20. It’s sold primarily for plants as a fungicide, but it will work as well on doggie odors or mildew as it will on fire blight or brown spots on your lawn. This stuff eradicates the odor of CAT urine! Has probably a thousand uses, it’s a bactericide and algicide also, and (with scent added and under another name) is marketed as a hospital disinfectant. They sell it as a concentrate, it seems fairly expensive, but you never use more than a tablespoon per gallon, and that’s on the rough stuff like animal urine odors! Most applications use only a teaspoon per gallon. And IT WORKS. I just ran out of my original 16 oz bottle after a year or two, and replaced it with a gallon. At $56 with the shipping, you know I’m a believer. :) We have 2 cats and 2 dogs, a large garden and a house in a rather damp location, and TA20 serves ALL my household needs, from the bathroom to the laundry to the walls and plants and pets. Diluted and used as directed it’s safe for humans and pets and is also biodegradable, but want to point out that it IS toxic to fish if it gets into their water. As I don’t keep fish, I never had any problem with it whatsoever. The toll free number is 800-323-2363. Their regular number is 512-790-9033, don’t know the hours, sorry. Don’t know the prices either, except for the gallon. You won’t regret the call or the purchase or the expense though, I’m sure. Good luck, I hope you try the stuff and like it as much as I do. Barbara
Response:
I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
Response:
> I would like to know the answer to this as well, have checked on zinc > chloride and it is definately not a product I would use around my pets > or my family. Can’t find ingriedient list for febreez, so don’t know > amounts in it, anyone with info please post it. Bigdogs2
Funny, I just read the label on the bottle: "Contains odor neutralizers, quality control agents, perfume and water." That’s all! You would think they would at least list the "agents"! I have used it in the past, and my dogs are fine. (they avoid the chair/couch when it’s still wet, but as soon as it’s dry, they’re back up relaxing and sleeping) — |||/ (0-0) Nola J .oooO ( ) Oooo. _) ) / (_/
Response:
cool – thanks for the replies folks I will pass them back to my source I have not had time to do a Dejanews or web search to see if I can track back the complaints However I did learn from an email that the product contains a perfume which means it will NEVER EVER replace a real deodorizer at my house as perfume is a big no no when you are allergic to it! Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on > the development team for this product posted a response when this was > forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with > animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the > public market. > Darlene Hernandez > Landmark Tervuren
Response:
> > this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on > the development team for this product posted a response when this was > forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with > animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the > public market.
I use the product on a regular basis (once a month on couch and chairs) and have seen no adverse conditions in my dogs. (it was even recomended to me by my vet!) — |||/ (0-0) Nola J .oooO ( ) Oooo. _) ) / (_/
Response:
I hope this isn’t a hoax. I just read on another newsgroup that zinc chloride is a known carcinogen. Is it really in this product????
Response:
> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating?
I should have saved the post from my Belgian list. One of the people on the development team for this product posted a response when this was forwarded. The product is safe. It has been tested in homes with animals (including his) for quite a while prior to being released on the public market. Darlene Hernandez Landmark Tervuren
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product > mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it > helps anyones pet’s then its worth while > Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? > Nancy > Attention – I spammed this for maximum exposure – so be warned and choose > how you prefer to answer in one group or all of them >> from another list… >> Forward begin……. >> <<<<<<I got this post off of one of my exotics lists, >> A new product by Proctor and Gamble, and how the product is killing many >> pet birds. However, 2 of the reports I have received were from owners >> who had sprayed their doggie beds with the product. In both of those >> cases, not only did their birds die, but their dogs became violently >> ill. >>>> >> <<<Oh my lord! I had no idea it was effecting dogs as well. The dangers >> of Febreeze hit the bird lists a couple weeks ago and the original >> person who had the problem lost several birds when the product was >> sprayed on furniture in the NEXT room! She immediately vetted her sick >> birds and he called the company and their chemist called back and said >> the product had Zinc Chloride in it and admitted they tested it on dogs >> and cats but not birds. Obviously, if it’s effecting dogs, the chemist >> lied to that vet. There is immense publicity on all my bird lists as >> well as all over the bird club newsletters thanks to the internet >> warnings from a few weeks ago. I’ll now tell ppl that it effects ALL >> pets
Im not a Vet. But I had a bird once, and in self defense I bought a rather large expensive book on the subject and tried to educate myself about birds. The list of things that are poison to birds from common household products to plants fills four pages of small type. Just a random sample; oven cleaner, nail polish, crayons, hair dyes, pine oil, furniture polish, dishwasher detergent, spot remover, spray starch and on and on and on. The list of plants harmful to birds is so long it makes one wonder how they ever survive on planet earth. My point is, if you are going to have a bird you will have to educate yourself and be careful. You can’t expect the world to make every product safe for birds or even bother to mention that it is not. I doubt if your oven cleaner or nail polish says anything about being harmful to birds. I have no love for Procter & Gamble and I boycot their products when I have a choice for the very reason that they test products on animals. As you see above it did not bother them to spray the stuff on dogs & cats regardless of the consequenses. I know that medical and product testing on animals is sometimes a necessary evil. I just think it should be the choice of last resort and not the cheap first choice as it is with so many corporations like Procter & Gamble. I will now yield my soap box to any one who cares to comment. Good luck with the birds & God bless. Aloha charles
Response:
this is to say the least third hand but as I have seen this product mentioned in glowing terms on the dog groups I had to pass it along – if it helps anyones pet’s then its worth while Anyone got any connections to do some real investigating? Nancy Attention – I spammed this for maximum exposure – so be warned and choose how you prefer to answer in one group or all of them – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> from another list… > Forward begin……. > <<<<<<I got this post off of one of my exotics lists, > A new product by Proctor and Gamble, and how the product is killing many > pet birds. However, 2 of the reports I have received were from owners > who had sprayed their doggie beds with the product. In both of those > cases, not only did their birds die, but their dogs became violently > ill. >>>> > <<<Oh my lord! I had no idea it was effecting dogs as well. The dangers > of Febreeze hit the bird lists a couple weeks ago and the original > person who had the problem lost several birds when the product was > sprayed on furniture in the NEXT room! She immediately vetted her sick > birds and he called the company and their chemist called back and said > the product had Zinc Chloride in it and admitted they tested it on dogs > and cats but not birds. Obviously, if it’s effecting dogs, the chemist > lied to that vet. There is immense publicity on all my bird lists as > well as all over the bird club newsletters thanks to the internet > warnings from a few weeks ago. I’ll now tell ppl that it effects ALL > pets
Response:
January 4, 1999
Question:
Give your local wildlife rehab centre a call and see what they say. They’ll probably say to leave it alone, or to keep an eye on the snake or leave some food out (they’ll say what) or something. Kevin > We have discovered a baby Cardinal in front of our home in Florida. A quick > check of the trees in the immediate area revealed a fat Oak Snake only a few > feet away from a nest. The bird is young but appears to be only a short time > away from flight. Is there any chance in keeping this bird alive long enough > for it to gain the ability to survive on its own? If so, what is the best > way to introduce food and what foods are best? It is currently resting > inside our home in a nest made with a butter bowl and newspaper. > Please any advice would be greatly appreciated.
– Kevin Chu URL: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/6871/
Response:
We have discovered a baby Cardinal in front of our home in Florida. A quick check of the trees in the immediate area revealed a fat Oak Snake only a few feet away from a nest. The bird is young but appears to be only a short time away from flight. Is there any chance in keeping this bird alive long enough for it to gain the ability to survive on its own? If so, what is the best way to introduce food and what foods are best? It is currently resting inside our home in a nest made with a butter bowl and newspaper. Please any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks The Phillips
Response:
Yes you sure can.If you can bring it in your house in a small aquariam with the screen top and put paper towls in the bottom of it and call a rehaber..they get this all the time at ours they can tell you what to do .or vet has a rehaber that works for her and most vets who dr. birds and exotics have someone on hand or close to help ypu with this or they can tell you where to take it…But ypu must wash your hands and do not put it in the same room as your pet birds…wash hands every time you handle or feed it and use a snock or old shirt to put over you clothes to take off when you so out of the room to be around your birds.If you don’t have birds not to worry just keep your hands washed before and after feeding or handling…Good Luck J.L.
Response:
May 11, 1998
Question:
Give your local wildlife rehab centre a call and see what they say. They’ll probably say to leave it alone, or to keep an eye on the snake or leave some food out (they’ll say what) or something. Kevin > We have discovered a baby Cardinal in front of our home in Florida. A quick > check of the trees in the immediate area revealed a fat Oak Snake only a few > feet away from a nest. The bird is young but appears to be only a short time > away from flight. Is there any chance in keeping this bird alive long enough > for it to gain the ability to survive on its own? If so, what is the best > way to introduce food and what foods are best? It is currently resting > inside our home in a nest made with a butter bowl and newspaper. > Please any advice would be greatly appreciated.
– Kevin Chu URL: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/6871/
Response:
We have discovered a baby Cardinal in front of our home in Florida. A quick check of the trees in the immediate area revealed a fat Oak Snake only a few feet away from a nest. The bird is young but appears to be only a short time away from flight. Is there any chance in keeping this bird alive long enough for it to gain the ability to survive on its own? If so, what is the best way to introduce food and what foods are best? It is currently resting inside our home in a nest made with a butter bowl and newspaper. Please any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks The Phillips
Response:
Yes you sure can.If you can bring it in your house in a small aquariam with the screen top and put paper towls in the bottom of it and call a rehaber..they get this all the time at ours they can tell you what to do .or vet has a rehaber that works for her and most vets who dr. birds and exotics have someone on hand or close to help ypu with this or they can tell you where to take it…But ypu must wash your hands and do not put it in the same room as your pet birds…wash hands every time you handle or feed it and use a snock or old shirt to put over you clothes to take off when you so out of the room to be around your birds.If you don’t have birds not to worry just keep your hands washed before and after feeding or handling…Good Luck J.L.
Response:
May 11, 1998
Question:
> I’m thinking about leaving my name > in a bird petshop and avian veterinarian’s office as a petsitter
I think you have very good intentions…but I personally don’t think this is gonna fly…parrot owners are very different from dog owners – they are not going to leave their beloved parrot with an inexperienced person. I know I wouldn’t. Thank god we have a couple friend who own parrots and know how to handle them…. That brings us to point #2 – you have no expereience handling large parrots – parrots that can shap a finger if they so desired. By pet sitting – you are getting adult birds, set in their way, and very much in love with the families leaving them for a while. It’s going to be very difficult. What happens when one of the macaws start swiping at you with that huge upper mandible?? (god forbid they nail you!) Or do you know how to handle a cockatoo that falls off his perch in fear of a stranger? One week of vacation can leave a mark on a cockatoo for the rest of it’s life if it does not go well. The best way IMHO is to find a local person who owns large parrots so that you can observe how to handle them with their owner close by. You’ll be able to learn alot in a situation like this without putting on your shoulder the full responsibility of the pet until you know how to handle them. I know there are a lot of bird owners in NJ…maybe there in one just around the corner…. Christina RI Exotics Parrot Toys http://www.freepages.cban.com/RIExotics/index.html **SPECIAL GOING ON – BUY 3 and GET 1 FREE!!**
Response:
Hello again, I just started thinking of a way that I might be able to get a feel for what owning a large exotic bird would entail. I’m thinking about leaving my name in a bird petshop and avian veterinarian’s office as a petsitter. I would take in one bird at a time until I made a decision as to whether to own bird/s or not. This would entail buying a large cage. I have seen an unusual acrylic one for sale which seems very well outfitted and well thought out. What do you all think of acrylic cages? Also would it be able to be cleaned and disinfected well enough between birds? Doris
Response:
>Hello again, >I just started thinking of a way that I might be able to get a feel for what > owning a large exotic bird would entail. I’m thinking about leaving my name > in a bird petshop and avian veterinarian’s office as a petsitter. I would > take in one bird at a time until I >made a decision as to whether to own bird/s > or not.
Not to sound mean or anything, but someone with a bird already, is most likely going to want the babysitter to be completely knowledgable about birds. I babysit a B&G and let me tell you, they can get into all kinds of trouble! You also need to be aware of any little sign of illness or distress. It is a great responsibility I think and as much as I love Culo, I am always happy when her Daddy comes to pick her up!
Response:
>Not to sound mean or anything, but someone with a bird already, is most >likely going to want the babysitter to be completely knowledgable about birds. I > babysit a B&G and let me tell you, they can get into all kinds of trouble! >You
I agree. Birds are such masters at masking problems, by the time they start acting sick, it’s time to get some professional help. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel) "There are only two opinions that matter to me. Neither of them is yours." (WHL 9-97)
Response:
>The best way IMHO
"IMHO"-??? The only peron I know who has a large bird bought a 4 month old baby last winter/early spring. It is a macaw and they "co-parent" it with their daughter who keeps it during the week with her family (young son, small dog and other birds). The couple who work take the bird on weekends. Since the beginning, they have taken it everywhere, including on the beach where they live, with no problems. The bird hardly ever screams, does not fall ill, does not pine when any ot its 3 key people go away, not seems to have any of the problems that this group has warned me against. I like the suggestion about meeting more parrot owners and learning how they deal with their birds. Does anyone live near Ortley Beach or Millstone, NJ? Doris
Response:
>I think you have very good intentions…but I personally don’t think this is > gonna fly…parrot owners are very different from dog owners – they are not > going to leave their beloved parrot with an inexperienced person. I know I
After reading your message, I have three things to say. 1. Everything you said is right on the money. I couldn’t agree more! 2. you left out the chance of a bird in her charge contracting a horrible disease like PBFD, Polyomavirus, or Psittacosis. THis iw why I stopped adopting unwanted birds in my area! 3. When I have to travel, my feathered friends travel with me if at all possible because no one would take care of them the way I would. When it’s impractical or impossible to take them with me, I leave them with friends that do not have pet birds, and I have taught Jack and Elaine how to handle both of them safely, and leave a Vet’s telephone number with them in case of emergency. WHL (Bill) With Buddy (PF lovebird), and Scampy (Lutino Cockatiel) "There are only two opinions that matter to me. Neither of them is yours." (WHL 9-97)
Response:
November 7, 1997
Question:
> Bob?
Hehheheheheh! I LIKE that name! (but I’m not the one who asked for one) Guess what my next male budgie will be named!! — Hillary http://www.angelfire.com/pages0/cody/index.html
Response:
>> Bob? >Hehheheheheh! I LIKE that name! (but I’m not the one who asked for one) >Guess what my next male budgie will be named!! >– >Hillary >http://www.angelfire.com/pages0/cody/index.html
I got a kick out that too!!! And I am the one that requested names. I think the next bird we get might be named that. Thank you all for your help! Yago is doing very well and I think he/she likes the family alot! But I have one question, if I may? Yago likes being on our shoulders, I think thats great but… Yago likes my hair to no end!!!!! He works his way around to the back of my head and wont move, just sits there and prenes my hair. When I try to stop this I get bit. (Its almost an obsession, or maybe not almost!!!) I wouldn’t mind so much but I am very ticklish on the back Thanks, Rhonda Greiner.
Response:
writes: >After the last hurricane they had 2 mth ago, Claude told me they are >only a short distance from the coast. Concidering the velocity of the >winds, the size of the storm, and storm surge and the fact that the >eye made landfall at Wilmington, I think it is reasonable to expect >that his birds would have had a terrible time surviving. Likewise the >buildings would suffer in such conditions as well.
Hopefully he, and all others, had enough warning to move all if not most of the birds to safer grounds. Please keep us posted if you hear anything (although I’m not sure I’d want to hear if it’s bad news…..) Ellen
Response:
Greiner) writes: Hello all. We just got a new White eyed Conure!…
We still are trying to find a name for our new baby. Could >any of you give us some ideas?
Dear Rhonda: In my own experiece, I have found that pets tend to name themselves — that is, we talk to them over a few days and in the process we find we are using one "name" quite a bit and then it starts to stick because it fits the pet and the pet responds. I had some wonderful names thought up for my first budgie and then had to throw them all out because I kept calling him "Budgie Boy." The second parakeet I was sure would get a clever name — but much to my chagrin, he became "Mister" — and so it goes. Nonetheless, here are a few entries for your consideration: Kittyhawk, Dotcom, BeeGee (after Bill Gates), Yahoo, Netty, Netcom, Pluma. Or, you could name him after the place from where he came such as Boston or Catalina, or after a pronounced trait he has such as Hopper or Swinger. In any event, please let me know what you do name him/her. Snf I hope you find the perfect name. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rhonda Greiner.
Response:
Bob?
Response:
i would try to name her as soon as possible, since my koko (dyh amazon) became very acclimated to the name birdie after two years without naming her. now, at three years, i still don’t think that she really identifies with the name koko, but will answer to birdie readily, and we talk a lot in our "conversations" using the name koko. also, i have a senegal named jet (for jetty), and another senegal named em (as in m for marina for counselour troi), and mated pair of green rump parrotlets (named carrie ann and sweet pea), and a blue-masked lovebird without a name. avoid the "problem" and name them as soon as possible, especially for a potential "talker". BEST OF LUCK TO YOU! somehow, i am now leaning towards monsyllabilic names for my birds. if in doubt, try a b for bea or a bo or a guy or a gigi or a j for jay or a k for kay. please let me and everyone else know what you have decided on. thanks, from – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all. > We just got a new White eyed Conure! Well we have had her/he since > monday. She/he is around 12 weeks old,and Loves to play with us > already!!! We still are trying to find a name for our new baby. Could > any of you give us some ideas? So far we have down on our list is: > Baby, Yago, Speedy, Tweety, Flap. As you can see we need some fresh > ideas Any help would be greatly apprciated!!!! Thank you in advance! > Rhonda Greiner.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Greiner) writes: > Hello all. >We just got a new White eyed Conure! Well we have had her/he since >monday. She/he is around 12 weeks old,and Loves to play with us >already!!! We still are trying to find a name for our new baby. Could >any of you give us some ideas? So far we have down on our list is: >Baby, Yago, Speedy, Tweety, Flap. As you can see we need some fresh >ideas Any help would be greatly apprciated!!!! Thank you in > advance! > Rhonda Greiner. > Hi all! > Thank you all for your advice and help!!!! > We have finaly come up with a name that fits our new family member. The > name is Yago! We named her/him after the bird in Aladin. We think that > it fits. We really apprciate all of the e-mail that you gave us and > hope to continue getting lots of great advice on r.p.b. > I would like to also let all of you know that Yago after 5 days has > started making the kissing sound! witch I think is wonderful! I had > hoped for a bird that might do this kind of thing! When we put Yago to > bed he/she usualy will kiss us good night. > So far this is the only mimic sound Yago makes, but what does one > expect in a week! I think our bird is wonderful and no matter what, we > will Love her/him for ever! > Once again thank you all for your suggestions and advice! > Rhonda Greiner.
I have an orange winged amazon that I have named Cindy,mabe you want to concider this name as possible for your bird. — – Harry Sogaard Pedersen Ingierodden Zoo Norway
Response:
Congrats on the new bird. The only suggestion I have is to pick a name you won’t mind hearing over and over as your bird learns to talk. I named my peach front conure "Peaches". Not very original, but there isn’t anything sweeter than hearing her say "good morning Peaches" when we get up in the morning. Good Luck!! Tammy
Response:
Greiner) writes: > Hello all. >We just got a new White eyed Conure! Well we have had her/he since >monday. She/he is around 12 weeks old,and Loves to play with us >already!!! We still are trying to find a name for our new baby. Could >any of you give us some ideas? So far we have down on our list is: >Baby, Yago, Speedy, Tweety, Flap. As you can see we need some fresh >ideas Any help would be greatly apprciated!!!! Thank you in advance! > Rhonda Greiner.
Hi all! Thank you all for your advice and help!!!! We have finaly come up with a name that fits our new family member. The name is Yago! We named her/him after the bird in Aladin. We think that it fits. We really apprciate all of the e-mail that you gave us and hope to continue getting lots of great advice on r.p.b. I would like to also let all of you know that Yago after 5 days has started making the kissing sound! witch I think is wonderful! I had hoped for a bird that might do this kind of thing! When we put Yago to bed he/she usualy will kiss us good night. So far this is the only mimic sound Yago makes, but what does one expect in a week! I think our bird is wonderful and no matter what, we will Love her/him for ever! Once again thank you all for your suggestions and advice! Rhonda Greiner.
Response:
Hi, I just went through the same problem about a week ago with my new green cheeked conure! We eventually named him Beaker, and had about a million other names. We found a book at Waldenbooks of pet names and there’s a web site: http://www.primenet.com/ ~meggie/petname.htm It’s a pretty good site for names! Best of luck with your new bird! Rob Edmondson
Response:
After the last hurricane they had 2 mth ago, Claude told me they are only a short distance from the coast. Concidering the velocity of the winds, the size of the storm, and storm surge and the fact that the eye made landfall at Wilmington, I think it is reasonable to expect that his birds would have had a terrible time surviving. Likewise the buildings would suffer in such conditions as well.
Response:
I am very concerned about Seven Oaks Game Farm in Wilmington, NC. Claude Mc Allister is a significant member of our fold, breeding many types of game birds, water fowl and fancy chickens, with 600 outdoor breeding pens and aprox 10,000 birds. We need to keep them in our thoughts tonight and let them know that we care in the aftermath of the hurricane. Their address is 7823 Masonboro Sound Road, Wilmington, NC 28409.
Response:
Has their farm been hit, or is it just in the anticipated path of the hurricane so far? In either case, I wish them luck. Ian Kerfoot
Response:
Hello all. We just got a new White eyed Conure! Well we have had her/he since monday. She/he is around 12 weeks old,and Loves to play with us already!!! We still are trying to find a name for our new baby. Could any of you give us some ideas? So far we have down on our list is: Baby, Yago, Speedy, Tweety, Flap. As you can see we need some fresh ideas Any help would be greatly apprciated!!!! Thank you in advance! Rhonda Greiner.
Response:
> Hello all. > We just got a new White eyed Conure! Well we have had her/he since > monday. She/he is around 12 weeks old,and Loves to play with us > already!!! We still are trying to find a name for our new baby. Could > any of you give us some ideas? So far we have down on our list is: > Baby, Yago, Speedy, Tweety, Flap. As you can see we need some fresh > ideas Any help would be greatly apprciated!!!! Thank you in advance! > Rhonda Greiner.
Our family has a trend of naming the pet birds after some exotics places we’ve been. Our cockatiel is named Tahoe, our budgie is Minnie (the kids named that one). My sister-in-law has a cockatiel named Cayman. — chris jeschke
Response:
September 5, 1996
Question:
You should call your local Wildlife Rescue Team. If they are not listed in your phone book, try the local animal shelter/humane society. In the meantime, maybe you should get some type of electrolyte solution. Pedialyte with some sugar added should help. I have also heard that adding some Grenadine syrup to water will keep these babies alive for awhile. I’m not a vet, or a member of the wildlife rescue team, so can only advise you from a layman’s viewpoint. Good luck. Monica – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >[ Article crossposted from rec.birds ] >[ Author was Michael Thacker ] >My SO and I found a baby hummer on the ground. It was quite vocal so we >decided to bring it home and try to feed it. So far it has taken some >sugar water and seems to have livened up a bit. What is best to feed it >and what kind of feeding schedule does it need? What is the best way to >care for it? Are we spinnning our wheels trying to care for it? We also >have some pet birds and must keep them separate from each other. >Any advice will be appreciated. >TIA, >– >–
Monica Sudds CAS, Pres. Beakers Parrot Society, Iowa State Coordinator for AFA 3217 Italy Avenue 712) 642-4578 24 hr. fax (712) 642-3710 Missouri Valley, IA 51555 (comments, questions and polite critisism welcome!)
Response:
Others have reported that the parents will continue to feed birds on the ground. Don’t know if this is so for hummingbirds. Did you wait to observe if this was the case with the bird? If that’s so, perhaps keep any cats or dogs, if possible, away from the bird. Perhaps it was quite vocal for it was calling its parents? Adam Sundor
Response:
My first suggestion would be to either find the nest and replace the bird or find a wildlife rehab center.Baby birds,and hummers in particular,are difficult to raise. I don’t know what you’d feed a hummer,I’ve always raised birds on soaked cat food or parrot pellets,but I don’t suppose that would be appropriate for a hummingbird.The difficult thing about hummingbirds is that,because they have such a high metabolism,they must be fed EVERY 15-30 minutes from about six in the morning to ten at night. You should probably release it when it’s old enough,it’d be illegal to keep it,and I’ve always found the best way to release a bird is by letting it release itself.Let it spend as much time as it wants outside, and it will gradually start becoming more independent. Anyway,I hope this helps,and good luck! Raaven and her Zoo
Response:
[ Article crossposted from rec.birds ] [ Author was Michael Thacker ] My SO and I found a baby hummer on the ground. It was quite vocal so we decided to bring it home and try to feed it. So far it has taken some sugar water and seems to have livened up a bit. What is best to feed it and what kind of feeding schedule does it need? What is the best way to care for it? Are we spinnning our wheels trying to care for it? We also have some pet birds and must keep them separate from each other. Any advice will be appreciated. TIA, — —
Response:
June 21, 1996
Question:
You should call your local Wildlife Rescue Team. If they are not listed in your phone book, try the local animal shelter/humane society. In the meantime, maybe you should get some type of electrolyte solution. Pedialyte with some sugar added should help. I have also heard that adding some Grenadine syrup to water will keep these babies alive for awhile. I’m not a vet, or a member of the wildlife rescue team, so can only advise you from a layman’s viewpoint. Good luck. Monica – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >[ Article crossposted from rec.birds ] >[ Author was Michael Thacker ] >My SO and I found a baby hummer on the ground. It was quite vocal so we >decided to bring it home and try to feed it. So far it has taken some >sugar water and seems to have livened up a bit. What is best to feed it >and what kind of feeding schedule does it need? What is the best way to >care for it? Are we spinnning our wheels trying to care for it? We also >have some pet birds and must keep them separate from each other. >Any advice will be appreciated. >TIA, >– >–
Monica Sudds CAS, Pres. Beakers Parrot Society, Iowa State Coordinator for AFA 3217 Italy Avenue 712) 642-4578 24 hr. fax (712) 642-3710 Missouri Valley, IA 51555 (comments, questions and polite critisism welcome!)
Response:
Others have reported that the parents will continue to feed birds on the ground. Don’t know if this is so for hummingbirds. Did you wait to observe if this was the case with the bird? If that’s so, perhaps keep any cats or dogs, if possible, away from the bird. Perhaps it was quite vocal for it was calling its parents? Adam Sundor
Response:
My first suggestion would be to either find the nest and replace the bird or find a wildlife rehab center.Baby birds,and hummers in particular,are difficult to raise. I don’t know what you’d feed a hummer,I’ve always raised birds on soaked cat food or parrot pellets,but I don’t suppose that would be appropriate for a hummingbird.The difficult thing about hummingbirds is that,because they have such a high metabolism,they must be fed EVERY 15-30 minutes from about six in the morning to ten at night. You should probably release it when it’s old enough,it’d be illegal to keep it,and I’ve always found the best way to release a bird is by letting it release itself.Let it spend as much time as it wants outside, and it will gradually start becoming more independent. Anyway,I hope this helps,and good luck! Raaven and her Zoo
Response:
[ Article crossposted from rec.birds ] [ Author was Michael Thacker ] My SO and I found a baby hummer on the ground. It was quite vocal so we decided to bring it home and try to feed it. So far it has taken some sugar water and seems to have livened up a bit. What is best to feed it and what kind of feeding schedule does it need? What is the best way to care for it? Are we spinnning our wheels trying to care for it? We also have some pet birds and must keep them separate from each other. Any advice will be appreciated. TIA, — —
Response:
June 21, 1996
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