Birdie Pets

Electus Baby for Sale

Question:

>We pay wholesale for these guys and gals since >we are an exotic bird store. What is your price for your ECLECTUS. You >forgot >the " C " We ship by Delta Dash to Indy. Denis.. >Denis W.Sloan >Bird Fever >Indpls., In. >"Indys’ Only All Bird Store"

Hi Denis, My sister lives in Indainapolis, Indiana along with my sons. Kathy is looking for an Eclectus up there and she tried to find your store. Where are you located and what is the name of your store? Is it a bird store or a pet store as she also has dogs along with her birds. HYOS. http://www.plannedparrothood.com/seniors.html Regards, Cherane http://members.tripod.com/~cherane/

Response:

Cherane wrote >Where are you located and what is the name of your store? Is it a bird store >or a pet store as she also has dogs along with her birds.

"Bird Fever" is the name of the store, and it’s listed in the phone book. It’s only birds, bird supplies, food, and bird-related gifts. Tell your sister it’s across the street from Castleton Square Mall. Really nice store, and I’ve seen Eclectus babies there, before, so she may be in luck. The worst thing about the store is that it’s soooooo hard to leave without another baby "under your wing."

Response:

Beautiful Male Solomon Island Electus baby, 10 weeks old, hand fed, Ready for

Response:

So where are you? I’m in Indy. We pay wholesale for these guys and gals since we are an exotic bird store. What is your price for your ECLECTUS. You forgot the " C " We ship by Delta Dash to Indy. Denis.. Denis W.Sloan Bird Fever Indpls., In. "Indys’ Only All Bird Store"

Response:

20/20…For the record everybody!

Question:

I didn’t get too concerned about the $600 – owning birds is EXPENSIVE whether it’s 600 or 300!! I also liked the speeded-up footage of her doing all the feeding/cleaning work, and the shots of their HUGE cages, a silent emphasis on just what one is getting into by getting a parrot. Liz and Tweeter the tiny itty bitty little budgie, who has cost me $200 in just 4 months and she hasn’t even been sick.

Response:

>Liz >and Tweeter the tiny itty bitty little budgie, who has cost me $200 in >just 4 months and she hasn’t even been sick.

LOL Dave

Response:

>One thing that was not mentioned is that I prepare warmed foods daily, I >spot clean cages daily, and I truly do spend about 1 1/2 hours in a >total day taking care of our birds. That is MY choice folks & I realiz

Connie, For what ever my words mean to you as a breeder of these wonderful creatures. I would be ever so pleased to have owners as yourself and husband. you and youu routine in my opinion made the show. I dont think you owe anyone any explanation for this takes away from the wonderful pet bird owners that came across the show. My hopes is that you’ll be a mentor to many new owners of birds or future pet bird owners. I truely enjoyed you and the owner of the bird store information and wealth of experience. Please pay no mind to all the quibble and do know you are very exceptional people with your birds/kids. from my feather kids to yours, Cherane Pefley http://members.tripod.com/~cherane/index.html

Response:

Well – I thought $600 a month in California for 3 large psittacines was about right. My vet bill alone (18 psittacines) in 1997 was $3500 (that did include most of the Harrison’s of about 50 lb. every 6-8 weeks) and routine visits and blood work. My regular guestimate of my monthly costs was about $1000 for the birds – excluding the 5 dogs- when we were figuring "retirement" costs. Yuk yuk. Since my birds are indoors, I can tell you that I spend at least 3 hours a day in the Am feeding and cleaning cages, and when I vacuum add another half hour (that’s at least every other day and usually daily). Have to collect all those fresh food dishes and wash them and get ready for the evening "fixing" which is I fix their food at night and refrigerate it cause I can’t get up early enough in the AM to do that part of the job- and that takes another 45 minutes every night. And, if I go away for a day or week or whatever, add in the cost of the pet sitter! You don’t want to know what I pay for that service. Yup- birds are expensive. A lot more than just stuffing some bird seed and water into a cage every day. But it’s well worth it -IMHO! Jude

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m Connie…the one who was in the 20/20 segment. While I am very > proud of how this piece came out I feel I HAVE to get this across to > everyone that has been questioning the $600 a month we seem to spend and > the "over 2 hours" of time to care for our birds!! I’ve been inundated > with emails & calls about this (including my own family who think I > secretly won the lottery)! I felt like people thought we very wealthy > and very slow! Allow me to clarify: > snipped > So before people begin to make statements about things you’ve read, > heard or seen on TV – remember that it is just that TV! Editing can be > a very dangerous thing at time, so I’ve found out:) But overall, the > content of the piece was so very well done considering the time fram > that Gwen had to air it in. She did a fantastic job & I truly hope that > ABC will consider future shows about the "loves of our lives". > I hope this answers all those questions I’ve seen popping up here:) > Connie Pavlinac

Connie, I enjoyed the segment. I thought it gave a balanced picture in a very short time. Your birds are obviously VERY well cared for and it is good for the general public to hear and see that these creatures need lots of time, attention, and money. It was also good to see the balance between a delightfully talking and/or singing bird and the fact that there is no such thing as "obedience trained" parrots. They can bite, they can scream and they can pluck and mutilate themselves when stressed or distressed enough. All in all, I think the segment was a good exposure for psittacines. Winnie & Tom, Herbie, Maggie, Elwood, and Swee’pea

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > SNIP > Editing can be > a very dangerous thing at time, so I’ve found out:) But overall, the > content of the piece was so very well done considering the time fram > that Gwen had to air it in. She did a fantastic job & I truly hope that > ABC will consider future shows about the "loves of our lives". > I hope this answers all those questions I’ve seen popping up here:) > Connie Pavlinac > Connie: > Candi (wife person) is on your side about all this. She said that you > shouldn’t even have tpo explain yourself: "it’s her money and her > birds. If she wants or feels she needs to spend $600 or $60 it > shouldn’t matter to anyone." Of course, being a fool and lacking the > sense god gave (fill in your favorite animal), I said something along > the lines of "dont you think it is just a tad excessive?". > She says: " you think you got room to talk, Wilson. Just exactly how > much do you think you spend on your bass tournaments each month. Lets > just take a look….(skipping the gory details…) That well over what > she spends and at least her birds talk to her." > "But," says I, "at least I win money at the tournaments. > "Uh Huh, when was the last time you made more than you spend?" > "Weeell, in Feb. I won $XXXX" > "Uh Huh, and since then?" > Jump forward to 3AM Saturday. Yours truely is getting ready to leave > for a tournament. > Candi (wife person) "Don’t you think this is a triffle excessive?" > Jump forward to 4PM today: Tell (wife person) I am going to go pre-fish > for an upcomming tournament tomorrow. > (wife person) "don’t you think…… > Connie, this is all your fault. I’ll probably have to hear that same > line the rest of the year and it is all because of YOU! > TA > FAW (Bass fishing person) getting ready to go fishing with a (VBG)

Ha Haaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! A word to Fred’s wife person: YOU GO GIRL!!!! — "MAMABIRD"

Response:

> Hi All > To anyone who has problems with Connie’s figures might I suggest that they > have a camera crew invade their home, re-arrange their furniture, set up > lights, shove a camera in their face and start firing questions at them. > Ever wonder why quiz shows seem so easy from the comfort of the old > recliner? > I visit many, many bird homes every month and if I could have one wish it > would be that more clients all took care of their birds like Connie and > Gary do theirs. My work (what little of it there would be left) would be > 100 times easier. > My hat goes off to anyone with this level of committment.

Geez, a little defensive???? No one criticized them … we all just wondered how she spent $600 on 3 pet birds per month, that’s all!!! I mean, yes, it *is* her business–of course! But for many of us who have an equal level of commitment to our feathered critters, and who take excellent care of them all, we don’t spend nearly $200 per bird per month. I just wanted to know how she did that! Last time my birdie per-month bill was nearing that, I found I had to take away their credit cards! Hated to do it, but my "naked hyacinthine" was just spending too much time in Wilson’s House of Suede and Leather!! –Shirley

Response:

Hi All To anyone who has problems with Connie’s figures might I suggest that they have a camera crew invade their home, re-arrange their furniture, set up lights, shove a camera in their face and start firing questions at them. Ever wonder why quiz shows seem so easy from the comfort of the old recliner? I visit many, many bird homes every month and if I could have one wish it would be that more clients all took care of their birds like Connie and Gary do theirs. My work (what little of it there would be left) would be 100 times easier. My hat goes off to anyone with this level of committment. Layne — Layne Dicker Staff Avian Behaviorist Wilshire Animal Hospital, Santa Monica, CA

Response:

SNIP > Editing can be > a very dangerous thing at time, so I’ve found out:) But overall, the > content of the piece was so very well done considering the time fram > that Gwen had to air it in. She did a fantastic job & I truly hope that > ABC will consider future shows about the "loves of our lives". > I hope this answers all those questions I’ve seen popping up here:) > Connie Pavlinac

Connie: Candi (wife person) is on your side about all this. She said that you shouldn’t even have tpo explain yourself: "it’s her money and her birds. If she wants or feels she needs to spend $600 or $60 it shouldn’t matter to anyone." Of course, being a fool and lacking the sense god gave (fill in your favorite animal), I said something along the lines of "dont you think it is just a tad excessive?". She says: " you think you got room to talk, Wilson. Just exactly how much do you think you spend on your bass tournaments each month. Lets just take a look….(skipping the gory details…) That well over what she spends and at least her birds talk to her." "But," says I, "at least I win money at the tournaments. "Uh Huh, when was the last time you made more than you spend?" "Weeell, in Feb. I won $XXXX" "Uh Huh, and since then?" Jump forward to 3AM Saturday. Yours truely is getting ready to leave for a tournament. Candi (wife person) "Don’t you think this is a triffle excessive?" Jump forward to 4PM today: Tell (wife person) I am going to go pre-fish for an upcomming tournament tomorrow. (wife person) "don’t you think…… Connie, this is all your fault. I’ll probably have to hear that same line the rest of the year and it is all because of YOU! TA FAW (Bass fishing person) getting ready to go fishing with a (VBG)

Response:

Connie, I can see where you could easily spend 2 hours a day preparing / cleaning, etc. We have 14 birds, (7 big, 7 small) and on average, we spend 3/4 hours each day preparing food, changing cages, general cleanup. Also if you include the $100 per bird checkup per year, that’s over $100 a month, if they remain healthy all year. I think we spend around $300 a month on food alone (veggies, fruit, pellets, nuts, seed, extras). The toy cost varys, but on average, I bet it’s around $100 per month. I don’t usually itemize the costs, it’s expensive and thats all I need to know! The bigger the bird, the more they cost. jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m Connie…the one who was in the 20/20 segment. While I am very > proud of how this piece came out I feel I HAVE to get this across to > everyone that has been questioning the $600 a month we seem to spend > and > the "over 2 hours" of time to care for our birds!! I’ve been > inundated > with emails & calls about this (including my own family who think I > secretly won the lottery)! I felt like people thought we very wealthy > and very slow! Allow me to clarify: > During the interview when we were asked this question which I was NOT > prepared for, I quickly started running numbers in my head to throw a > number out that didn’t seem "too low". Well, the only reason I > estimated first at $600 was because of the Harrison’s pellets, monster > chew toys I buy weekly, fresh fruit/vegies weekly & I include 8-12 > varieties, other accessories that I provide, etc – this seemed to be > fairly close "at that moment". However, I quickly recanted during the > interview to say that it would realistically be closer to $300-$400 > for > us & our birds on a regular basis. And ovbviosly this statement was > edited out of the piece!! While Gwen Gowen, the producer, was trying > to > make the most accurate representation of our lifestyle with our birds, > she was also trying to make a greater statement to "non-bird" people > about the "potential" long term care & maintenance expenses for having > birds. We all agree I think that this wasn’t such a bad thing as it > may > deter those impulse purchases out there. > While I do spend up to 2 hours a day preparing meals & cleaning – they > did state this in incorrect context, making me seem like I must move > very slowly! At the time this segment was filmed, our Hyacinth was > still on one handfeeding which added extra time to my daily routine. > One thing that was not mentioned is that I prepare warmed foods daily, > I > spot clean cages daily, and I truly do spend about 1 1/2 hours in a > total day taking care of our birds. That is MY choice folks & I > realize > that most of you do not. I am also very fortunate that I work from my > home & I can afford that time which most people can’t. > So before people begin to make statements about things you’ve read, > heard or seen on TV – remember that it is just that TV! Editing can > be > a very dangerous thing at time, so I’ve found out:) But overall, the > content of the piece was so very well done considering the time fram > that Gwen had to air it in. She did a fantastic job & I truly hope > that > ABC will consider future shows about the "loves of our lives". > I hope this answers all those questions I’ve seen popping up here:) > Connie Pavlinac

Response:

>I hope this answers all those questions I’ve seen popping up here:) >Connie Pavlinac

Yes, and very well too! I’ve been regretting my earlier "minor comment" ever since I wrote it. Your birds are very fortunate to share their lives with you… Regards, Tad

Response:

I’m Connie…the one who was in the 20/20 segment. While I am very proud of how this piece came out I feel I HAVE to get this across to everyone that has been questioning the $600 a month we seem to spend and the "over 2 hours" of time to care for our birds!! I’ve been inundated with emails & calls about this (including my own family who think I secretly won the lottery)! I felt like people thought we very wealthy and very slow! Allow me to clarify: During the interview when we were asked this question which I was NOT prepared for, I quickly started running numbers in my head to throw a number out that didn’t seem "too low". Well, the only reason I estimated first at $600 was because of the Harrison’s pellets, monster chew toys I buy weekly, fresh fruit/vegies weekly & I include 8-12 varieties, other accessories that I provide, etc – this seemed to be fairly close "at that moment". However, I quickly recanted during the interview to say that it would realistically be closer to $300-$400 for us & our birds on a regular basis. And ovbviosly this statement was edited out of the piece!! While Gwen Gowen, the producer, was trying to make the most accurate representation of our lifestyle with our birds, she was also trying to make a greater statement to "non-bird" people about the "potential" long term care & maintenance expenses for having birds. We all agree I think that this wasn’t such a bad thing as it may deter those impulse purchases out there. While I do spend up to 2 hours a day preparing meals & cleaning – they did state this in incorrect context, making me seem like I must move very slowly! At the time this segment was filmed, our Hyacinth was still on one handfeeding which added extra time to my daily routine. One thing that was not mentioned is that I prepare warmed foods daily, I spot clean cages daily, and I truly do spend about 1 1/2 hours in a total day taking care of our birds. That is MY choice folks & I realize that most of you do not. I am also very fortunate that I work from my home & I can afford that time which most people can’t. So before people begin to make statements about things you’ve read, heard or seen on TV – remember that it is just that TV! Editing can be a very dangerous thing at time, so I’ve found out:) But overall, the content of the piece was so very well done considering the time fram that Gwen had to air it in. She did a fantastic job & I truly hope that ABC will consider future shows about the "loves of our lives". I hope this answers all those questions I’ve seen popping up here:) Connie Pavlinac

Response:

Baby Hummingbird Help

Question:

You should call your local Wildlife Rescue Team. If they are not listed in your phone book, try the local animal shelter/humane society. In the meantime, maybe you should get some type of electrolyte solution. Pedialyte with some sugar added should help. I have also heard that adding some Grenadine syrup to water will keep these babies alive for awhile. I’m not a vet, or a member of the wildlife rescue team, so can only advise you from a layman’s viewpoint. Good luck. Monica – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >[ Article crossposted from rec.birds ] >[ Author was Michael Thacker ] >My SO and I found a baby hummer on the ground. It was quite vocal so we >decided to bring it home and try to feed it. So far it has taken some >sugar water and seems to have livened up a bit. What is best to feed it >and what kind of feeding schedule does it need? What is the best way to >care for it? Are we spinnning our wheels trying to care for it? We also >have some pet birds and must keep them separate from each other. >Any advice will be appreciated. >TIA, >– >–

Monica Sudds CAS, Pres. Beakers Parrot Society, Iowa State Coordinator for AFA 3217 Italy Avenue 712) 642-4578 24 hr. fax (712) 642-3710 Missouri Valley, IA 51555 (comments, questions and polite critisism welcome!)

Response:

Others have reported that the parents will continue to feed birds on the ground. Don’t know if this is so for hummingbirds. Did you wait to observe if this was the case with the bird? If that’s so, perhaps keep any cats or dogs, if possible, away from the bird. Perhaps it was quite vocal for it was calling its parents? Adam Sundor

Response:

My first suggestion would be to either find the nest and replace the bird or find a wildlife rehab center.Baby birds,and hummers in particular,are difficult to raise. I don’t know what you’d feed a hummer,I’ve always raised birds on soaked cat food or parrot pellets,but I don’t suppose that would be appropriate for a hummingbird.The difficult thing about hummingbirds is that,because they have such a high metabolism,they must be fed EVERY 15-30 minutes from about six in the morning to ten at night. You should probably release it when it’s old enough,it’d be illegal to keep it,and I’ve always found the best way to release a bird is by letting it release itself.Let it spend as much time as it wants outside, and it will gradually start becoming more independent. Anyway,I hope this helps,and good luck! Raaven and her Zoo

Response:

[ Article crossposted from rec.birds ] [ Author was Michael Thacker ] My SO and I found a baby hummer on the ground. It was quite vocal so we decided to bring it home and try to feed it. So far it has taken some sugar water and seems to have livened up a bit. What is best to feed it and what kind of feeding schedule does it need? What is the best way to care for it? Are we spinnning our wheels trying to care for it? We also have some pet birds and must keep them separate from each other. Any advice will be appreciated. TIA, — —

Response:

NO breeders ads here ?

Question:

Why no bird for sale ? Is the market really as ripe for hand raised birds as it would seem ? I am looking for a blue front amazon and seem to be seeing an absolutely fixed price from everyone (eg. $8-900) and not much availablility. How is the supply-demand out there ? Jim Biology Department Indiana University Bloomington

Response:

: Why no bird for sale ? : Is the market really as ripe for hand raised birds as it would : seem ? I am looking for a blue front amazon and seem to : be seeing an absolutely fixed price from everyone (eg. $8-900) : and not much availablility. : How is the supply-demand out there ? Though the rules for this are rapidly blurring and fading, it has long been considered a breach of the rules of the Internet for commercial posts with the exception of regulated and up-front mentioned areas. The NSF still funds a large portion of the Net, and by that factor commercial posts are supposed to be strictly verboten. Posts of an individual selling something as a one time thing are usually considered OK. Up to now, rec.pets.birds has not been sanctioned, either by the participents or the powers that be on the Net, to be a location for commercial posts. — Michael Kelly Larsen cisco Systems, Inc. PHONE : (415) 688-4684 Development Test Engineer Menlo Park, CA 94025 LAB : (415) 688-4471 DREAMTANK: A virtual band for a virtual generation. Keywords: African Grey Parrots, Amazon Cichlids, Electronic Music, ElfQuest, Snowboarding

Response:

> Why no bird for sale ?

Because this newsgroup is for the exchange of information regarding care and training of birds, not some kind of market. — —

Response:

Would like to see notices from breeders of birds available. Especially the harder to find kind…jardine’s parrots, yellow collar macaws, etc.

Response:

>> Why no bird for sale ? > Because this newsgroup is for the exchange of information > regarding care and training of birds, not some kind of market.

Kevin, Although I would agree that commercial advertising on the Internet is a growing problem (eg. alt.current-events.net-abuse), I would hardly consider information here as to what breeders have available turning the group into "some kind of market". It is important to make a distinction between "spamming" and appropriate information that readers desire. I am curious as to the level of interest the group has in seeing availability and price information relevant to hand raised birds. It works quite nicely in rec.pets.herp, where small breeders make occasional announcements. Jim J. Graham Biology and Chemistry Departments Indiana University Bloomington

Response:

Re: Re: NO breeders ads here ? I’m not a breeder but my copy editor’s daughter has a bird for sale. She works and doesn’t think she is spending enough time with him. He’s a Half Moon Conure, around three to four years old, tame, talks, w/cage toys and food for $275.00. She lives here in Vancouver, Washington. If anyone is interested they can E-mail me and I’ll give them a number to call. Rhia Otis — Senegal Parrot, Sir Duke & King Drake — Zebra Finch Studs

Response:

>Would like to see notices from breeders of birds available. Especially the >harder to find kind…jardine’s parrots, yellow collar macaws, etc.

Why not join the American Federation of Aviculture? In addition to a terrific monthly mag, the WatchBird, they also send out "FastADs" which is a listing of birds available from breeders. I would never buy long distance, or from a breeder I couldn’t check out personally (facilities, references, etc.) but lots of people do and FastAds at least gets you to breeders who are AFA members and are more likely to have a clue….I will also suggest to all of you that if you really can’t find the bird you want locally, you should try the ABRC in Loxahatchee, Florida (Avicultural Breeding and Research Center). They have a great rep, lots of birds, many different species. Just don’t let anyone sell you an unweaned bird unless you have lots of experience or the breeder is nearby and willing to teach you and continue supervising once you take the bird home. Ellen from Maryland

Response:

I. Paul) writes:

Thanks, Ellen in Maryland. Have recently joined AFA and am looking forward to fast ads. Have also checked with ABRC. Wonderful books, lots of information, no Jardine’s. Can you tell me anything about Hauser’s (?) House of Birds. Amazing place in an old farm house. I’m curious. Have been getting some great references from one breeder to another, and have successfully purchased a pair of Jardine’s, sight unseen, from a California breeder. But I was able to check her references, and I did take the (weaned) chicks straight to my avian vet here to get them health certified. Am new to both birds, and the net, so I love getting advice. Thanks again, Genny in Virginia

Response:

I think that non-commercial pet owners do, from time to time, offer a bird for sale here and I don’t think most of us would object to an obviously non-commercial post like that. However, I do believe that anyone selling birds for profit should find another venue for the ads. Maybe we should have a rec.pets.birds.sale forum? Cheers, Phil the

: > Because this newsgroup is for the exchange of information : > regarding care and training of birds, not some kind of market. : Kevin, : Although I would agree that commercial advertising on the Internet : is a growing problem (eg. alt.current-events.net-abuse), I would : hardly consider information here as to what breeders have available : turning the group into "some kind of market". : It is important to make a distinction between "spamming" and : appropriate information that readers desire. : I am curious as to the level of interest the group has in seeing : availability and price information relevant to hand raised birds. : It works quite nicely in rec.pets.herp, where small breeders make : occasional announcements. : Jim : J. Graham : Biology and Chemistry Departments : Indiana University Bloomington —

Response:

> > Why no bird for sale ? > Because this newsgroup is for the exchange of information > regarding care and training of birds, not some kind of market. > — > —

Seems rather silly to me. No ads. Don’t you realize without the ability to sell birds, breeders won’t breed and your beloved hobby will cease to exhist? That is, if the environmental animal rights wackos don’t SHAME us into Setting the Birdies Free first. I live in a housing development in Houston TX. I started with one pet Amazon and within a couple years had 23 breeds of parrots. Realizing what I wanted was more contact and loving relationship (why can’t a bird be more like a cat?) I decided to set up a pair of Yellowheads for breeding. In the last four years, from one pair of Double Yellow head amazons and one pair of Greenwing macaws, I have had 19 DYH and 25 greenwing babies. Try that in a diminishing rainforest! I have spent thousands on my birds. I truly love them as pets and friends first BUT I DO need to find homes for the babies. I realize the most people don’t want to ship a baby. I certainly do not. But a national forum such as this help s everyone to see how small the supply is and what the value of birds are. As far as the AFA and their quick ads are concerned, I have found them ineffective. The beauty of a newserver is that if you don’t want to read a FOR SALE ad, you mark it read and skip it. What POSSIBLE harm could ads do?

Response:

: Don’t you realize without the ability to sell birds, breeders won’t breed : and your beloved hobby will cease to exhist? That is, if the : environmental animal rights wackos don’t SHAME us into Setting the Birdies : Free first. : I live in a housing development in Houston TX. I started with one pet : Amazon and within a couple years had 23 breeds of parrots. Realizing what : I wanted was more contact and loving relationship (why can’t a bird be : more like a cat?) I decided to set up a pair of Yellowheads for breeding. : In the last four years, from one pair of Double Yellow head amazons and : one pair of Greenwing macaws, I have had 19 DYH and 25 greenwing babies. : Try that in a diminishing rainforest! : I have spent thousands on my birds. I truly love them as pets and friends : first BUT I DO need to find homes for the babies. I realize the most : people don’t want to ship a baby. I certainly do not. But a national : forum such as this help s everyone to see how small the supply is and what : the value of birds are. : As far as the AFA and their quick ads are concerned, I have found them : ineffective. : The beauty of a newserver is that if you don’t want to read a FOR SALE ad, : you mark it read and skip it. : What POSSIBLE harm could ads do? Nobody is saying that without buyers breeders wouldn’t have trouble staying afloat. That goes without saying. The point is that USENET historically has not been a commercial enterprise. It is funded, by and large, by government grants as a scientific research asset, not as a money making enterprise. Lately, with private providers becoming more & more prevalent, and with these private providers offering more and more commercial services, it’s geting more and more difficult to tell where the NSFnet Internet and the Commercial Internet seperate, and if there should be a seperation. Ask yourself this, though. Do you want to pay your tax dollars to see tons of unwanted commercial posts? Kids, this doesn’t work like a mail order business, where a company invests a large sum of money to mail out flyers in the hope of a return on their investment. WE are the ones paying to receive these ads. Even if you are a college student with so called *free* Internet access, it’s our tax dollars that are funding your accounts in a lot of instances. I, for one, do not want to pay a red penny for someone elses advertising. Period. If you feel so strongly that breeders should place ads on the net, then I entreat you to request the creation of a rec.pets.birds.marketplace newsgroup, and go through the voting process like all other groups. Lest people think I’m a heartless ogre, I do not find fault with the grad student who has to part with a beloved friend or face eviction, and therefore is asking *one time* to sell their pet to a good home. What does bother me, as I’ve stated, is seeing: ALL SHAPES, ALL SIZES, ALL PRICES, JUST FOR YOU!!! VISA, MasterCard, & American Express Accepted Sorry, but this is not where I want to see my tax dollars go, and seeing that each year brings a more gradual erosion of this factor on the Internet means that we have to fight even harder for it. I applaud your efforts at raising and breeding quality birds, but forgive me if I don’t want to pay for your advertising. Realize that every message that you write can cost the net in cumulative archival & storage space on X number of machines anywhere between several hundred and several thousand dollars. And guess who pays for it? Everyone! Also, remember that USENET is not just an American enterprise, it is worldwide, and different countries have different rules about what is allowed on the public net and what is not. People in Finland most likely do not have any interest in birds selling in Boulder, Colorado, nor do they wish to pay the costs required to see, at least to them, what constitutes a useless message. Again, I’m not just screaming without trying to offer a logical alternative, as I’ve stated above. There are commercial sections of the Internet, and rec.pets.birds is not one of them. There are a great many of us who wish it to remain so. If you want to see ads for birds, make a group where ads for birds will be welcome. USENET is a democracy, and if you go through the process, and find enough people who feel the same way you do, you can create a list to answer that need. I believe the group news.announce.newusers has frequent messages on the procedure for doing this. — Michael Kelly Larsen cisco Systems, Inc. PHONE : (415) 688-4684 Development Test Engineer Menlo Park, CA 94025 LAB : (415) 688-4471 DREAMTANK: A virtual band for a virtual generation. Keywords: African Grey Parrots, Amazon Cichlids, Electronic Music, ElfQuest, Snowboarding

Response:

> However, I do believe that anyone selling birds for profit should find > another venue for the ads. Maybe we should have a rec.pets.birds.sale > forum ?

Phil, Hmm. I have yet to see anyone not making a profit from breeding and selling birds. Its not just an adventure, it’s a good job . Bird breeding is not an entirely philanthropic enterprise as many would like to believe. I am also finding the vast majority of parrot breeders to be small and "non-commerical", even if they are structured as buisnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any way around that "requirment" in terms of producing friendly birds. As for a specific "sale" forum, I don’t think there is enough interest to support a viable one. Newsgroups work best when they are large and heavily traveled in my experience. The ongoing drive to create new "subgroups" on the usenet I find often counterproductive. Jim J. E. Graham Biology and Chemistry Departments Indiana University Bloomington

Response:

Michael – right on. This forum already gets several hundred posts a day. It is hard to wade through all that is here right now. Ifk there were commercial ads here our msgs would get lost in a flood of commercials, with headers nicely disguised to look look like legit. posts. Next, the bird people would drift away, or possibly form another net, heavily controlled, and we’d be back where we started. Why not just save time and trouble and keep rec.pets.birds the really charming place that it is. Cheers, Phil —

Response:

>offer their opinions on this or that topic just like anyone else. In my >mind, the difference between the shopper vs the seller’s posts is that >the shopper’s is probably going to have questions related to care, >disposition, availability, which may be of interest to others (witness

all Is this to imply that breeders aren’t likely to have anything of interest to say? Seems to me this group wouldn’t be harmed by more input from people with more "bird maturity" and greater breadth of experience. I for one would like to see more breeder ads since this gives an indication of what species are most available and also what the going prices are.

Response:

>>offer their opinions on this or that topic just like anyone else. In my >mind, the difference between the shopper vs the seller’s posts is that >the shopper’s is probably going to have questions related to care, >disposition, availability, which may be of interest to others (witness >all >Is this to imply that breeders aren’t likely to have anything of interest >to say? Seems to me this group wouldn’t be harmed by more input from >people with more "bird maturity" and greater breadth of experience. I >for one would like to see more breeder ads since this gives an indication >of what species are most available and also what the going prices are.

You didn’t read what I wrote, did you? I said, specifically, that breeders can choose to either lurk or post comments, just like everyone else. Breeders have and continue to do so (Hi Ellen! Hi Chuck! Hi Linda!) and their comments are well appreciated. The reason they are welcome is their posts are NOT advertisements of their stock for sale, they are simply their opinions, experiences, and advice. I see rec.pets.birds as a primarily educational forum for the dispersal of info on pet bird care. If anyone can convince me breeders will agree to post their ads with a certain header format, so my kill file can weed those posts out, perhaps I wouldn’t mind as much. However, there’s only one interactive place for discussing the daily concerns of pet bird care, with people who can understand the bird obsession There’s a zillion ways to find a bird salesperson: magazine ads (listed by state, for your convenience), pet stores (check their stock or ask for a breeder recommendation), feed stores (check the "for sale" bulletin boards), avian vets (recommend local breeders), the newspaper (see the classifieds, or place one), and yes, a post to the newsgroup (with subsequent sale arrangements conducted via private e-mail). I don’t want to wade through sales ads and sale transactions when I just want to read the bird owners’ posts and the replies that ensue (again, because the ads carry no useful info for someone that is not buying birds!). —

Response:

Hello everyone, I am a new user, and i’ve been reading all of these NO breeders ads here replies, and i don’t understand what the problem is!! Look through all the posts, there is hardly anything for sale!! I would agree with Phil and others if the posts were swarming with for sale ads, but there not. This all started when one person asked why there was no for sale ads. Like that person, I am interested in what’s for sale. This is not even a discussion, it is a debate of who is right and who is wrong. To tell you the truth, I am scared to post anything because I wouldn’t want it to turn out like this post, a war a words!! —

Response:

I agre with Cathy. If I want to FIND a bird I can ask a question and I will be delighted to hear from a breeder. Otherwise I do not and will not wade through tons of commercial msgs and, no matter what you say, that is exactly what will happen the minute any easing of the "no commercial" rule happens. Human nature should confirm this to you. The "me too" attitude would prevail and all the breeders who are licking their lips at the possibillity of commercializing this net would pile in unmercifully. Since you ask, and you continue to ask, if we want to see the net commercialized (which is against Internet policy, anyway) I vote a resounding NO.! Cheers, Phil : I, for one, would rather NOT wade through "for sale" ads. Why? Because I : am not looking to buy a bird!! I have no more $, space, but what really : makes me be out of the market is I simply have no more time to spend in : yet another bird (if I am to keep the locals spoiled to the level they have : become accustomed). : When I WAS out to buy a bird, I posted something along the lines of : "senegal wanted: Bay Area, CA, USA breeder suggestions?" and within a week : had about 5 people telling me stories about their Poicephalus parrots, : 1 breeder offering me a red-belly, and 2 people telling me I *had* to check : out a certain breeder in the area. 90% of this went on via private e-mail, : so the newsgroup was spared the clutter. 2 weeks later, my new birdie : was home. : The way I see it, *the breeders* are the ones to stand to make the $$ profit, : so they are the ones who should have to wade through the "bird wanted" : ads. Once the breeder sees a request they may be able to fulfill, they : can contact the poster privately. Otherwise, they can lurk, or they can : offer their opinions on this or that topic just like anyone else. In my : mind, the difference between the shopper vs the seller’s posts is that : the shopper’s is probably going to have questions related to care, : disposition, availability, which may be of interest to others (witness all : the happy people who have ever posted "what bird should I get?" and gotten : swamped with advice). : One of my concerns is that some breeders may feel free to post a daily : update on their "available merchandise". : Why not start a "Birds for sale" mailing list? That way only the interested : parties would have to deal with the posts. Anyone interested in getting a : bird could subscribe, then unsubscribe upon purchasing a bird. If the mailing : list ever grows enough, then perhaps rec.pets.birds-4-sale can be generated. : The existence of this mailing list could then be mentioned in the FAQ, and/or : a reminder could be posted automatically once a month. : — —

Response:

: I am a new user, and i’ve been reading all of these NO breeders ads here : replies, and i don’t understand what the problem is!! Hi Stephanie, It sounds like you may be new to the Internet. I’d suggest you get a copy of "The Internet Guide for New Users" by Daniel P. Dern (McGraw-Hill). I’d bet you local library would have a copy. On page 241 he details why commercial messages are not allowed on the Internet except in groups set aside for this purpose. It really doesn’t matter if posters here want or don’t want to see ads from breeders. Placing such ads violates the rules all internet sites have agreed to follow called "Usenet Netiquette and Rules" (whoever runs the machine that you have your account on agreed for you and others using your machine). Besides violating Netiquette, it was (and may still be) a violation of the rules set down by federal government for use of the internet to post commercial messages (I think the feds have or are seriously revisting this). While a business or commercial interest can’t post their wares for sale, you can recommend or not recommend products of a business (which would include a breeder) if and ONLY IF you have zero personal comercial interest in the firm you are talking about or a competing firm. (Again this is detailed in the book listed above and Dern is quoting from the rules set out by Software Tool & Die who run "The World" which is THE public access site for public-access Internet). So you can recommend a breeder. You can slam a breeder, as long as you are not a breeder. And (according to the rules of Netiquette), breeders can’t post birds for sale in rec.pets.birds. (these aren’t my rules, just my understanding of the rules according to the sources cited above). I hope this helps. — Mike Holland |***** / *****| Internet: 2015 South Park Place |* / / /_/ *| HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339 |*** / ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449 |***** / *****| Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It is an illusion to think that the usenet has ever been some sort >of sterile higher ground divorced for the normal markets that >characterize our way of life. As the Internet has become more >mainstream, these apspects have increased, along with the byte >volume. The issue now is focused on "APPROPRIATE" information >which may include availablility and pricing (which many of us >are interested in), in contrast to the ad which you used as an >example. >I am as concerned as Mike about the commercialization of the >Internet, and am just as annoyed by the intrusion of >"make.money.fast" and the "Green-Card lawyer" affair. However, >the issue here is quite a bit different and should not be >confused with these cases of net abuse. >Those interested should "drink deeply" of the relevant aspects >from the various newsgroups related to usenet policy before >commenting here. Those who would prefer a >simpler "black and white" decision, or the return to an earlier >day in the evolution of the Internet may take heart in that >the eventual establishment a of new "research only" based network >is entirely possible. The entire topic "rec.pets.birds" whould then >likely remain on this side of such a fence. >To return to the topic for which I started this thread, I am still >interested in how many readers would be interested >in seeing specific information on availability and prices of >the various birds being discussed. So far a handful of YES’s, >and a two *not*s. As the breeding of parrots appears to be only >manageable as a small personal enterprise in order to

m>produce the desired results, fear of spamming by "Woolwoth’s" >I think is a little excessive . >Jim

Dear Jim, I do not want ads here or anywhere on the net. I have lots of reasons but here are three related specifically to rec.pets.birds 1.There are plenty of ads in BirdTalk, AFA Fast Ads, people can ask their vets and other bird owners for recommendations 2. As Cathy suggested, if someone wants to buy a bird, they can post an inquiry and let breeders respond to their email, thus keeping the dozens-hundreds of responses off the net 3. There is no way to keep scum breeders and brokers from advertising in BirdTalk and other places – I frequently recognize the names of really bad eggs (an appropriate expression, if ever there was one) in these ads. How would we – all major bird fanatics who are highly protective of birds – be able to distinguish and bar the creeps. I like the way Ellen from Denver and Robert Moldenda do it – just give your business name in your signoff. It’s informative but not intrusive. Ellen from Maryland

Response:

Stephanie – welcome to the birdnet! It is really a very friendly place – don’t let some of the frayed tempers fool you. You will read dozens of other posts on the board right now that amply demonstrate that. The point here is, that forums such as this ride the "coat tails" of big business and universities all over the world under the expressed constraint that they contain nothing commercial. It costs someone a lot of money to fling these msgs. all over the world, and we all know that some day this free priveliage will disppear if the basic rules are forgotten. I hope you don’t mind a little "housekeeping" that has to go on from time to time in order to keep down the commercial hunger to troll the nets like this one for business. It raises hackles beause we have seen it happen before, and we don’t want to see it happen to such a pleasant bunch of people. Tell me – do you own a bird now or are you just considering one? If you do have one, what is it and how long have you had it? I presently own just one old bird, a scarlet macaw named Rose who has been with me more than 25 years. Cheers, Phil : Hello everyone, : I am a new user, and i’ve been reading all of these NO breeders ads here : replies, and i don’t understand what the problem is!! : Look through all the posts, there is hardly anything for sale!! : I would agree with Phil and others if the posts were swarming with : for sale ads, but there not. : This all started when one person asked why there was no for sale ads. : Like that person, I am interested in what’s for sale. : This is not even a discussion, it is a debate of who is right and who is : wrong. : To tell you the truth, I am scared to post anything because I wouldn’t : want it to turn out like this post, a war a words!! : — —

Response:

I. Paul) writes:

There are ads all over the internet. Haven’t you noticed the *.forsale groups? Why not a rec.pets.birds.forsale group? Shawn

Response:

. >I do not want ads here or anywhere on the net. I have lots of reasons >but here are three related specifically to rec.pets.birds >1.There are plenty of ads in BirdTalk, AFA Fast Ads, people can ask their >vets and other bird owners for recommendations >2. As Cathy suggested, if someone wants to buy a bird, they can post an >inquiry and let breeders respond to their email, thus keeping the >dozens-hundreds of responses off the net >3. There is no way to keep scum breeders and brokers from advertising in >BirdTalk and other places – I frequently recognize the names of really >bad eggs (an appropriate expression, if ever there was one) in these >ads. How would we – all major bird fanatics who are highly protective of >birds – be able to distinguish and bar the creeps.

. Hi Ellen P. I agree with your above statementes completely. I also think that some of the breeders on the net go very close to the edge, but on the whole are pretty sensitive to the "non-advertisement" policy. Regards, Dana

Response:

I would disagree with Cathy that "info relevant to pet birds" does not include what is available and at what price range, and that "ads carry no useful information for someone that is not buying birds". It is clear that this is useful information for many readers who have an eye out for this kind of thing. Finding birds may be a one time thing as she suggests, or it may be an ongoing or even permanent situation for others. The other misconception is that we wil somehow be "flooded" by such posts. Remember the question is about "BREEDER" information, rather than commerical resellers or wholesalers. As was suggested, the proper newsreader and skill can easily allow the few articles that would appear to be passed over by those not interested. Sorting out what you are interested in from what you are not is an obviously essential aspect of reading news, and shouldn’t overwhelm any of us, nor be used as an reason to restrict the flow of information. The fact that there are other sources of this information also does not make it inappropriate here, in that the magazine ads and such refered to are merely static, unchanging blurbs that are almost always outdated. Breeder availablility is a very timely apsect, here today gone tomorrow, ideally suited to an electronic forum. The proposal of a mailing list is interesting, however I would question weather a suitable volume is available to support this or another newsgroup, even if someone were available to adminstrate such a list. Finally the suggestion that breeders tag there .sig with pointers is a great one regardless of the question at hand. Keep in mind the number of breeders you know, and the few that read this newsgroup, and the number of potential posts we are taking about. Thanks much, Jim J. Graham Biology and Chemsitry Departments

Response:

>posts. Remember the question is about "BREEDER" information, rather >than commerical resellers or wholesalers. As was suggested, the proper

And how exactly do we KNOW that someone that puts the word "breeder" in their .sig file is not in reality a reseller or wholesaler or bird smuggler for that matter? >newsreader and skill can easily allow the few articles that would >appear to be passed over by those not interested. Sorting out what >you are interested in from what you are not is an obviously essential >aspect of reading news, and shouldn’t overwhelm any of us, nor be used >as an reason to restrict the flow of information.

My kill file needs either an address, a subject or keywords or SOMETHING standard, in every "for sale" ad in order to remove posts; otherwise I am left with manually skipping over the post, which (in this newsgroup) I hardly want to do. Who is going to make "the bad apples" stick with a recognizable format? There are ways and ways to get around kill files. >The fact that there are other sources of this information also does not >make it inappropriate here, in that the magazine ads and such refered to >are merely static, unchanging blurbs that are almost always outdated.

A phone call to the breeder may help update the ad. Mention that the ad is outdated and do a favor to others as well. >Breeder availablility is a very timely apsect, here today gone tomorrow,

Not if you contact the breeders and tell them to give you a buzz if a certain bird shows up. The ones that dissapear overnight are usually selling smuggled birds >ideally suited to an electronic forum. The proposal of a mailing list >is interesting, however I would question weather a suitable volume >is available to support this or another newsgroup, even if someone >were available to adminstrate such a list. Finally the suggestion >that breeders tag there .sig with pointers is a great one regardless >of the question at hand. >Keep in mind the number of breeders you know, and the few that read >this newsgroup, and the number of potential posts we are taking about.

Yes, but how many people gain internet access daily, and how long until word spreads that "hey, you can put a free ad in this group anytime you want"?? Also, it doesn’t sound to me like anyone who posts her asking for "what kind of bird to get" remains bird-less for more than a couple months… which suggests the birds are getting found without blatant internet advertisement. I still think ads by breeders should be off limits, as per Internet etiquette. The .signature info for breeders does loan some credibility to their opinions, and those who don’t want to advertise their hobby/ profession can keep the fact a secret . For all I care, the breeders can all band together and form an international address list, and they can mail that off to people who ASK for that kind of info. When I read a newsgroup on cooking, I don’t want to read ads for kitchen gadgets (although positive critiques by users are ok), I want info on techniques, recipes, suggestions… same applies whenever I read a newsgroup that doesn’t have .for.sale as part of its name. —

Response:

Thanks Stephanie for the concern, no need to worry, I’m glad we have a strong discussion going. As you point out, the idea that "millions" of breeders are poised waiting to be allowed to post information is pure fantasy. In fact, nothing prevents them from doing so, contrary to Phil’s impression. There are no "rules", merely conventions, as anyone familiar with recent events involving the usenet would know. Because many readers consider this useful, relevant information (rec.pets.birds remember ?), then it is not even outside established conventions. More opinions always welcome,

Response:

Stool, Urine & Urates

Question:

What can I say, I’m obsessed with bird poop. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > WOW! > "Democrcy is based on the assumption that a million men are are wiser > than one man. How’s that again? I missed something." >Lazarus Long

Response:

>What can I say, I’m obsessed with bird poop. > WOW! > "Democrcy is based on the assumption that a million men are are wiser > than one man. How’s that again? I missed something." > >Lazarus Long

Hoo Kay! Denise Lane The Busy Bride – Wedding Invitations, Accessories & More! http://www.TheBusyBride.com

Response:

>What can I say, I’m obsessed with bird poop.

Well, actually then I have a question for you. Have you known of a budgie that cleans his own cage, ie; picks his poopes off his perches etc… He keeps his cage nice & clean. I think he spits them out, but it is still kinda gross Denise Lane The Busy Bride – Wedding Invitations, Accessories & More! http://www.TheBusyBride.com

Response:

I recently read here that something about droppings that I *swore* was different than something I read somewhere else, so I looked it up. It’s from Kathleen Smith’s "Evaluating Bird Poop." Begin Quote "The Normal Dropping" Normal droppings in pet birds consist of three parts. The *stool* is coiled or partially coiled and varies in color from rich green to brown depending on the bird’s diet. It will be green for birds on a seed diet and for birds on a formulated diet it will reflect the color of the pellet. Certain Fruits and veggies can also effect its color…for example, beets, blueberries and others can give the stool their color. Urates *Urates* are a by-product of the kidneys and are usually snow white when dry. They are chalky in texture and will vary in size from tiny (as in the budgie) to large and spread out (as in the macaw). It is normal to have some transient color during the day and some colored formulated foods can tinge them a creamy color. Urine *Urine* is the liquid portion and its normally clear. The volume of urine will change according to what the bird is eating. You will see more after consumption of fruits and vegetables and less after pellets. End Quote WOW! "Democrcy is based on the assumption that a million men are are wiser than one man. How’s that again? I missed something." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Lazarus Long

Response:

Bird Newbie needs suggestion on Breed

Question:

Hi All, I’m a bird newbie and considering getting a bird. Of course the idea of an African Gray parrot with a good vocabulary is quite romantic but I beleive that since I am inexperienced I should have an easier bird to look after. Can anyone make one or two suggestions as two a suitable type bird for me? I have looked at Cockateils and Love Birds. The Cockateils I saw were quite hand tamed and perched on my shoulder as well. Any advice is very much appreciated. Thanks Eric PS: For those who take their birds out of their cage, how bad are your birds droppings to clean up off of furniture, clothes etc?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi All, > I’m a bird newbie and considering getting a bird. Of course > the > idea of an African Gray parrot with a good vocabulary is quite > romantic > but I beleive that since I am inexperienced I should have an easier > bird > to look after. Can anyone make one or two suggestions as two a > suitable > type bird for me? > I have looked at Cockateils and Love Birds. The Cockateils I > saw > were quite hand tamed and perched on my shoulder as well. > Any advice is very much appreciated. > Thanks > Eric > PS: For those who take their birds out of their cage, how bad are your > birds droppings to clean up off of furniture, clothes etc?

Tiels are an excellent first bird, as are budgies, lovebirds, and Quakers. I got a Quaker for my first, and he turned out to be an excellent choice. They’re fairly hardy, easy to train, and have arguably the best potential for vocabulary of any of the smaller parrots. So far as droppings go- a very valid concern. I’ll tell you what I do with my two birds- everyone’s opinion will vary on this. With my two I keep an old flannel shirt lying around that I throw on over what I’m wearing. Both of my two birds are potty trained, but in the event of a mishap, I’m not in danger of ruining a shirt. If there is a mishap, your best bet is to wait for it to dry. Once it dries, it can easily be picked up with a paper towel. My final point of advice would be to do as much reading as you can on the care/feeding/training of pet birds before you bring yours home. Pet stores are notorious for giving out misinformation on the care and feeding of companion birds. If you have the opportunity to talk to a breeder in your area, or better still, go to a bird show, you have a much better chance of getting quality advice. Finally there’s a ton of bird resources on the Web you can use for your research- start at http://www.upatsix.com, and follow the links from there that interest you. Best of luck. Ken

Response:

> I’m a bird newbie and considering getting a bird. Of course the > idea of an African Gray parrot with a good vocabulary is quite romantic > but I beleive that since I am inexperienced I should have an easier bird > to look after. Can anyone make one or two suggestions as two a suitable > type bird for me?

A Quaker or a cockatiel are two suggestions I encourage. Although I love my budgies, they are not as "parroty"… they are like the terriers of the parrot world. They are sweet and talkative, though. Parrotlets are another consideration, and as you have mentioned, Love birds. Get a handfed baby so it will adore you. Be prepared for behaviour issues sometimes. > PS: For those who take their birds out of their cage, how bad are your > birds droppings to clean up off of furniture, clothes etc?

They can be potty trained, and if you have a play area for them you can line it with newspaper, or run a mop through there every day. I have a tree brached stuck in a pot of cement- the birds love it. The smaller birds droppings aren’t terrible, but no one wants them on the couch- just be observant and put a hand towel over the arm of the couch while you have them there! Another around your shoulders will help until you get him potty trained- which is essentially YOU getting potty trained. — Signed- Kellie USDA zone 7/8, Sunset Zone 33 My Karma Ran Over My Dogma. It was a Catastrophe. Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment. Get in KNEE DEEP! <http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html>

Response:

I have a handfed tiel and she is the greatest. Last week I purchased a Senegal after doing quite a bit of research. My initial choice was an african grey, but I changed my mind once I saw the size of their "poops"! Everyone I talked to said the Senegal was the "perfect" parrot. I had a Lovebird years ago and she was wonderfull until she started laying eggs and then she became the bird from hell! My personal opinion is that conures are to noisy. The Senegal is very quite and loves to play. He also eats anything and everything. Good luck, Sandy Sandy Fry

Response:

Hi Sandy, Although I’ve never owned one, I understand Senegals *are* wonderful birds. Also being an African bird, I understand they have much the same personality of a grey. By the way, I wouldn’t let the size of a bird’s poop dissuade me from buying one. Usually in the AM ALL birds release what I call the ‘morning doozer’ — they’ve saved it up during the night. The size or quantity of poop is nothing to be alarmed about (unless its different than usual and that’s a whole new thread) — after all, when you have a bird, poop happens! And, usually more frequently than we all like. :-) Mary Sparky’s page is the place to go, if you want to learn about the "Grey Congo". . . . www.getnet.com/~tarnold/sparky.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have a handfed tiel and she is the greatest. Last week I purchased a Senegal >after doing quite a bit of research. My initial choice was an african grey, >but I changed my mind once I saw the size of their "poops"! Everyone I talked >to said the Senegal was the "perfect" parrot. I had a Lovebird years ago and >she was wonderfull until she started laying eggs and then she became the bird >from hell! My personal opinion is that conures are to noisy. The Senegal is >very quite and loves to play. He also eats anything and everything. >Good luck, >Sandy >Sandy Fry

Response:

Hi Sue: Sun Conures are sure beautiful but ask yourself if you can stand the noise 365 days a year for approx. 30 years. I have a BC Conure who screams like she’s being slaughtered and she *really* tests me sometimes. I’d never give her away but I do entertain the idea sometimes. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The heading says it all! > We went to a place that has 4 young ones. They are all hand fed and > all climbed on my arm, sat on my finger, and yes, bit me too. > I really need to think about this. I realize it is a lifetime > commitment. > I need pros and cons! > My cons.. > I heard they can be VERY loud if ignored! > I do not intend to do that but there might be days when He thinks he > is ignored! > That wouldn’t be a problem when we are home. > We travel and already have the budgie and two large dogs to fit in an > Expedition. > Ok, so I don’t pack as much! > We live in a pop-up camper for one month with the two large dogs! > That may be a problem. > Please help! > Sue > Help us fight puppy mills: > http://www.nwga.com/members/crchat/victims_of_greed.htm

Response:

Mess is a big factor in owning a bird. You have to have a plan man! We’ve got seven birds out in the patio and we’ve got "clean-up time" down to a science. Unless you potty train your bird to eliminate in a particular area, you’re going to get bombs on the furniture, on your shirt, on the floor, on the counter and if you own a Parrotlet, in your hair too. I like to recommend Senegals or any of the Poicephalus as a first bird. Senegals are very hearty birds, they’re strong and sturdy, mine never, *ever* get sick. They’ve got very flexible personalities, they’re intelligent, sensitive, good sound makers and sometimes talkers. They’re very good at keeping themselves amused and they’re very loyal and affectionate birds. Good luck and you are to be commended for researching this major, life changing decision, Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi All, > I’m a bird newbie and considering getting a bird. Of course > the > idea of an African Gray parrot with a good vocabulary is quite > romantic > but I beleive that since I am inexperienced I should have an easier > bird > to look after. Can anyone make one or two suggestions as two a > suitable > type bird for me? > I have looked at Cockateils and Love Birds. The Cockateils I > saw > were quite hand tamed and perched on my shoulder as well. > Any advice is very much appreciated. > Thanks > Eric > PS: For those who take their birds out of their cage, how bad are your > birds droppings to clean up off of furniture, clothes etc?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi All, > I’m a bird newbie and considering getting a bird. Of course the > idea of an African Gray parrot with a good vocabulary is quite romantic > but I beleive that since I am inexperienced I should have an easier bird > to look after. Can anyone make one or two suggestions as two a suitable > type bird for me? > I have looked at Cockateils and Love Birds. The Cockateils I saw > were quite hand tamed and perched on my shoulder as well. > Any advice is very much appreciated. > Thanks > Eric > PS: For those who take their birds out of their cage, how bad are your > birds droppings to clean up off of furniture, clothes etc?

Sorry, but I’m biased. Cockatiels great as newbie owners. That’s the route I took and has since bought a white-fronted Amazon. He’s bonded mostly with my husband but tolerates me very well. However, I just love my ‘tiels. They have quite different personalities. Half-Pint (my only female) just loves to be scratched. She doesn’t care who does it as long as someone does. Chico (the oldest but newest in the house) just loves to fly to Squeak’s and Half-Pint’s cage and whistles while trying to court Half-Pint (who won’t have anything to do with him). He also loves his scratches as long as I do it with my nose first. I guess he loves the warm air coming from my nostrils. He doesn’t like my fingers too much. He’s bitten me a couple of times. He’s the only non handfed baby out of the 3. Squeak is a ham. He knows a couple of whistles such as the first line to "Pop goes the weasel" and the wolf whistle. He can’t talk but he whistles Pretty Bird and is clear enough that people can make him out. He loves to plant his chest up against my cheek. He’s so fuzzy and warm. From what I’ve read, they say cockatiels, parakeets and quakers make the best first pet for a kid. Just make sure there’s lots of supervision. — Denise Antler – BFBS Webmaster http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/5470/

Response:

LAFEBER "Nutri-Berries"

Question:

My birds all eat Nutri-berries and Avi-Cakes. My amazon LOVES the cakes especially, although he eats the berries also. My tiels and lovebirds eat both but you have to break the berries up for them a little since they can’t hold them like the amazon can. My vet highly recommends all the Lafaber products, including their handfeeding formula, which I used for my last cluth of baby tiels. It has a nice smooth consistency. The babies ate it well, it didn’t make such a mess on their faces and was easier to clean off. And they were beautiful, healthy babies. He said he has never yet seen a baby with crop statis that was on this formula. I am very pleased with all of their products. Hope this helps. Robin

Response:

Greetings Mike! I bought some Nutri-Berries for my Umbrella Cockatoo, Ernie a few weeks ago and he will not give them the time of day!! He seems to think that they are only some sort of toy to pick up and toss to me. I am glad to hear that most people in Australia have birds on mostly seed diet….I was beginning to feel like a bad parent because Ernie isn’t very interested in pellets no matter what brand they may be. Just wanted to let you know what my bird thought of Nutri-Berries. I have heard several people here say that their birds loved them. Cathy Gessner in Wild, Wonderful West Virginia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Can anyone give me some information about the company Lafeber, and its >product Nutri-Berries. They are apparently going to import into >Australia and I would like to find out more before deciding whether to >stock and sell to my customers. At the likely price here it would have >to be something exceptional to justify recommending the product. >Note that in Australia, pellet style foods have a very small market >share. 99% of breeders and probably 99.99% of pet owners are happy with, >and obtain excellent breeding results, with dry seed and fresh food >diets. >Thanks in advance for any information. >cheers, Mike Owen, Queensland, Australia

Well, NutriBerries are not pellets. They are rather balls of hulled seeds held together by a nutrative coating. They are still seeds, so I wouldn’t recommend feeding ONLY NB’s, but I know my lovebird, who can be a picky eater, just LOVES these things, and eats every last bit. Although he’s normally a spaz, he goes BONKERS when he sees me with the tub, and he is in excellent condition. He eats basically parrot version NutriBerries (he PREFERS there) with some additional people food. I sometimes throw one or two to my conure, but she gets a more varied mix of dried fruits and veggies because as for seed, all she’ll eat is sunflower. She’ll pick the rest out in any mix I give her. I like the product, and I’ve found the company to be very pleasant to deal with. I am glad to give them my business. amy — http://nickel.ucs.indiana.edu/~alyoung These ideas and opinions are my own. Big surprise, eh? Dying is easy it’s living that scares me to death — Annie Lennox

Response:

> Can anyone give me some information about the company Lafeber, and its > product Nutri-Berries. They are apparently going to import into > Australia and I would like to find out more before deciding whether to > stock and sell to my customers. At the likely price here it would have > to be something exceptional to justify recommending the product.

The Nutri-Berries are supposed to be as nutritious as pellets. That info is from Lafeber themselves. Our birds, a severe macaw and a Timneh grey, love Nutri-Berries. It sounds like you would be able to obtain info from Lafeber themselves, but in case you can’t: Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds Organization: American Information Systems, Inc. Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: mc-host02.dialup.ais.net X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.) The Lafeber Company, manufacturer of pet bird food products such as Nutri-Berries, Avi-Cakes and Premium Diet pelleted food, is pleased to be part of the rec.pets.birds newsgroup. Your questions and comments about our food are important and Also, if your bird has never had the opportunity to try Lafeber’s Nutri-Berries or Avi-Cakes, we will be happy to send you a FREE sample (absolutely no obligations or gimmicks). Just e-mail your name, street address, city, state, zip and daytime phone number to us. And, to make sure we send you the correct item, please include the type of bird you own, too. Thanks for being concerned about the welfare of pet birds. Jim <=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=> Lafeber Company Phone: (800) 842-6445 "Working for the health of birds" <=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=>-<=> —

Response:

Can anyone give me some information about the company Lafeber, and its product Nutri-Berries. They are apparently going to import into Australia and I would like to find out more before deciding whether to stock and sell to my customers. At the likely price here it would have to be something exceptional to justify recommending the product. Note that in Australia, pellet style foods have a very small market share. 99% of breeders and probably 99.99% of pet owners are happy with, and obtain excellent breeding results, with dry seed and fresh food diets. Thanks in advance for any information. cheers, Mike Owen, Queensland, Australia

Response:

I have an african grey, Goffin, Umbrella and Moluccan cockatoo…….they all love these treats but I only give them a couple a day. They come in different qualities for smaller birds but I find the large bird size is loved by all. My 2 cents! marilyn

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Can anyone give me some information about the company Lafeber, and its >product Nutri-Berries. They are apparently going to import into >Australia and I would like to find out more before deciding whether to >stock and sell to my customers. At the likely price here it would have >to be something exceptional to justify recommending the product. >Note that in Australia, pellet style foods have a very small market >share. 99% of breeders and probably 99.99% of pet owners are happy with, >and obtain excellent breeding results, with dry seed and fresh food >diets. >Thanks in advance for any information. >cheers, Mike Owen, Queensland, Australia

Greetings Mike! I think you’ve answered your own question.:) If you are already having excellent breeding results on seeds and fresh foods, stick with it. It’s the best diet in the world for birds! This is what we serve our birds and also have excellent results. Our babies receive an all natural fresh formula too. The thought of feeding the adults the good stuff and then feeding the babies a fabricated powdered formula mixed with water from a canister or bag makes me shudder. We don’t like the idea of bagged, jarred, canister type diets. They contain some unwanted additives and preservatives in their ingredients and are at best a short-term convenience. So long for now… Alicia — Alicia & Bruce McWatters Organically raised parrots Pionus Plus Aviaries 6 Species Pionus Parrots Edgewood, New Mexico Congo & Timneh African Greys Ph (505)281-5168 9am-5pm MDT African Red Bellied Parrots Fax (505)281-0751 anytime

Response:

OUTRAGE – Sears, Roebuck (or whatever they call themselves now)

Question:

I don’t know… Maybe I’ve been living in the dark ages… Maybe I have refused to climb out from under my rock for too long and just haven’t had my ears on to know this information already… Does ANYONE else out there know that selected Sears stores SELLS PETS? I can walk into a local Sears and buy a puppy and charge it on my Sears card and walk out. I just called them and they have pet supplies (the usual) ..dog foods (incl. Iams, Eukanuba, Science Diet, Bil Jack, Nutro) ..live puppies, kittens, fish, birds, etc. And ‘Yes,’ she said, ‘we accept your Sears charge card for any purchases in this department.’ (boy, my mind is churning away on this one….) Amy Butcher Lover of ALL Canines, Master of None (they’re just TOO smart for me!) :-)

Response:

>Does ANYONE else out there know that selected Sears stores SELLS PETS? I >can walk into a local Sears and buy a puppy and charge it on my Sears >card and walk out. >I just called them and they have pet supplies (the usual) >..dog foods (incl. Iams, Eukanuba, Science Diet, Bil Jack, Nutro) >..live puppies, kittens, fish, birds, etc. >And ‘Yes,’ she said, ‘we accept your Sears charge card for any purchases >in this department.’ >(boy, my mind is churning away on this one….)

Needs to be further and immediately checked out. WHAT STORES? If this is true, Sears will get my torn up credit card in the mail along with others that will follow suit. Bob Maida Manassas,Va

Response:

The Sears in Crabtree Mall in Raleigh NC used to sell dogs and cats. The mall has been overhauled and the Sears moved to a new location so I don’t know if they still have a pet store or not. Big D. — ‘95 FLSTN Roush Racing Rules! Left wing "That which doesn’t kill me, only makes me stronger."

Response:

>The Sears in Crabtree Mall in Raleigh NC used to sell dogs and cats. The mall >has been overhauled and the Sears moved to a new location so I don’t know if >they still have a pet store or not. >Big D.

They do, and they are still selling live pets. Not the only location in the country, either. Amy Butcher Lover of ALL Canines, Master of None (they’re just TOO smart for me!) :-)

Response:

I’ve further investigated this and know that yes, SELECT Sears stores sell pets and have for years. The one in particular I am speaking of is located in Raleigh, NC. There is apparently another in Tennessee somewhere. I would imagine that larger metro areas that tolerate live pets in pet stores are the target areas for these Sears pet stores. BOYCOTT is strongly encouraged! I WAS under a rock somehwere on this, but eyes are open now, right down to replacing my vacuum cleaner (Sears) with another make, because I can’t find bags anywhere BUT Sears! I would like to think, given their financial status at present, the beginnings of a boycott would produce results. Amy Butcher Lover of ALL Canines, Master of None (they’re just TOO smart for me!) :-)

Response:

I remember back when I was a kid (late 60’s-early 70’s) they actually sold pets through the Sears catalog! There was a full page of pictures of dog breeds, and a few cats (Persian, Siamese, Manx, I think). You could actually mail order them! I also remember a friend’s older brother who bought monkeys and iguanas by mail order (I think from ads in comic books). It was not unusual for them to arrive dead. This was before Federal Express, remember. Layna

Response:

More physical punishment wanted

Question:

Karl Smith writes: >What has worked very well for me is: a squirt bottle. When he bites me >he gets squirted and "no!". He’s now learned that No and a squirt >bottle are related – and he screams at the squirt bottle, not me. When >I get random unintentional nips I just say "No." When I get bitten, I >squirt him. I’ve only had to squirt him once in the past two >months. We’re both much happier. He knows what his limits are, and the >water doesn’t really hurt him – it’s just really irritating. You can >get a squirt bottle/sprayer that has a brightly colored head. My bird >doesn’t like even being misted, but for those people that have birds >that do, I’ve seen some posts that say that using two squirt bottles >of different colors – one for "play" on mist, and one for >"discouragement" on a stream works.

UH OH! According to Sally Blanchard, this is a NO NO! : ) Remember: >Sally Blanchard recently addressed the issue of quick fixes and why >they don’t change bad behavior (Pet Bird Report, Sep/Oct 1993). I was >really surprised when I read this article since she "blasted" >techniques that many people have found effective. I have used the >following techniques which she advises against: yelling and >screaming, squirting with water (when my two birds were trying

>to inflict harm upon each other), punishing the bird by putting >it in the cage. She also advises against hitting the bird or >slapping it in the face, grabbing the beak and shaking it or >"thunking" the beak, punishing by putting the parrot in the bathtub >cage or some other far away place, covering the cage, putting the >bird in a dark room, putting the bird in a box; flapping the wings, >dropping the bird to the ground or throwing it on the floor, >buying another bird or turning your pet into a breeder. All I was >able to say after reading this article was WOW–I must be a bad >bird parent. I know that I am not a bad bird (or cat, dog, fish, >rabbit) parent; I was just up against a potential philosophical >difference on "parenting techniques" and I needed to think about >adjusting my practices.

Another point I’d like to make: We were having biting problems with my noble macaw. He would never bite me, but he would bite certain guests, and always seemed to be biting my husband, even hard enough to draw blood. We were at our wits end trying to correct him. The NO command worked only temporarily. As soon as it ceased to be a novelty, it was worse than useless. It got so bad that my husband completely refused to handle the bird. Then, one day, he appeared confidently with bird in hand. What had happened? It seemed that my husband had made an observation about the way I handled the bird that he hadn’t noticed before, and which I myself was completely unaware of. As it so happened, whenever I held the bird, and he tried to bite me, a split second before the bite, I (unknowingly) distracted him with my other hand. This last-second distraction thwarted the bite every time. But my husband hadn’t been doing this, thus he was getting bitten. When he started using the same distraction technique, he no longer got bitten. This is a classic example of someone "innately" handling a bird safely, but not relaying the training method to a novice. I think that this is what Sally Blanchard does. I have no doubt that she could take control of some screaming, biting macaw with relative safety. But most people can’t, and shouldn’t. The point is that there is alot more to bird handling/training than most people think, and we all should be open to sharing our training tips with each other on a continual basis. But at the same time, the tips should be taken "with a grain of salt", knowing that just because it appears to work for one person, it might not necessarily work for you. -E .

Response:

-> appears to work for one person, it might not necessarily work for -> you. Funny you should mention that. I just got done saying the exact same thing. Each "child" is different.

Response:

Lorne: I’ve been trying to get your attention to say hi. Remember me? I visited your place last April. I’ve got my grey named Rocky. He’s perched on my shoulder now, chattering away. How’s things? How are Sydney and Bruno? …Barb * 1st 1.11 #875 * Captivity serves no porpoise.

Response:

good news / bad news

Question:

: My Green Cheek did exactly the same thing, she/ended up a He, was hand fed, : very tame and loveable, use to live on my shoulder, well not anymore, that : is one bird from HELL let me tell you. It lives to attack or try to when I : get near the cage to change food etc. Don’t know what happened, figured it : was just maturity that changed the bird. Hi Everyone! I have only been lurking here a while. I have to add to this thread, though as the story was so familiar! We have a green cheek, Reno, that changes personality about every 18 months. He (my husband calls him "he", I think it’s a "she") is about 5 now, and the current personality allows me to tickle his head a little, and only while he perches on the "doorstep" of the cage. He sometimes flies to see me, but we limit the visit to about a minute, and he will ONLY step up to go from shoulder immediately to cage. I don’t really trust him on the shoulder. He bites my husband viciously every chance he gets now, which is terrible, because this is supposedly "daddy’s" bird. He used to be such a sweet, cuddly baby. He was hand raised, and always treated kindly, used to let you roll him upside down in your palm for tickles. We think it may be my husband’s beard that has him freaked, but who knows. When we added Zina the sun conure to our home 3 years ago, he got a little jealous and started hating me. It started gradually, but got pretty bad at times – he bit me in the face once, didn’t break skin, but that’s why I don’t trust him now. This hating me went on (off and on) for about 18 months, then he changed to the current odd personality. The only change in his life then was the beard I mentioned. We’re basically working with him gently with the time that we have, but also have to pay attention to the Sun also. They both have good healthy color and feathering, no plucking or excessive screaming, so we think we are pretty good bird parents. We never let the 2 birds out to play at the same time as we’re afraid they’d hurt each other. Reno’s got a razor-sharp beak, and I have a lot of respect for that little bird. He has always tried to bite anyone that is not the husband who tried to change the food or water – ironically, that’s the only thing he lets Daddy do, isn’t that odd. And this is about the only consistent behavior this bird has maintained. Well, that and the "budging off". The bird backs into a corner formed by a food dish, sticks the tail in the air and squeaks for a minute or so. We avert our eyes I don’t know that much actually anything! about green cheek sexual behavior, but that makes me think it’s a female. Any help from the more-knowledgeable here? Thanks, you guys! -Bobbie Bird fair here is next weekend – yea!

Response:

Well sadly I have to say Marco that I don’t even trust Gizmo enough to let her be on my shoulder. She has gone for the face and well once was enough so that took care of that. And being small in size, that beak really delivers a wallop that I prefer to just stay away from. It’s been bad enough that my CAG has been biting the crap out of my hand once in a while and for what reason??????? now he really opens the skin. I don’t even want to imgagine a Macaw bite and the damage they can do. Sounds Like Spanky should have a name change to *Spunky* >G< — Karen Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Karen, > I’ve noticed that as time goes by, Spanky becomes a lot more independent. > ‘Independent’ meaning that he doesn’t care for snuggling or extended petting > session. He’s more than content just perching on my head and watch tv with me > (his favorite!)… and once in a while he decides there’s a hair out of place > and he must do away with it (ouch). He gets extra cranky sometimes and doesn’t > want to come out of his cage. Other times he’s all for a good ‘rough-housing’ on > the couch. It depends on his moods. These lil’ green cheeks have such > personalities! But one thing is for sure, what they lack in size, they more than > make up in guts. Spanky has been known to try to attack the other birds, > regardless of size, shape, coloration or beak size. Luckily for Spanky, Hoppy > (U2) is terrified of him and will crest up and run away in terror everytime > Spanky puffs up. <g> > Marco, Gizmo was hatched 2/2/91 so that makes him (I still want to call him > her, so if I slip, don’t shoot me ok?LOL, ) 9 years old and has been nasty > for at least 2 years, could be more, time goes by so fast. Once in a while > I can get a scratch in on his head, but it’s quick and short. This bird is > so bad I have to take him in to clip him, but he is sweet as pie after a > clipping (just due to being scared and nothing else) In fact last time I did > this and we got home, that bird would let me pet it, etc and had him out for > about 2 hours, but no sooner that I had to leave, popped the bird in the > cage and returned in about 15 minutes, back to be Mr. Ornery once again. It > was too good to be true! > — > Karen > Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 > http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html > > Hey Karen, > > How old is your green cheek? I ask because when our green cheek, Spanky, > was > > about 2, 2.5 yrs he too turned into one mean, biting machine. He was > handraised > > and we’ve had him since he was 3 months old. He was so sweet and cuddly > then. > > Then he turned into a monster, but, luckily, he’s calmed down. Right now > he’s > > about 5 and a half yrs old, he still gets cranky once in a while, but in a > very > > non aggresive way. He’ll play with us *if* and *when* he wants to. Yours > might > > get over this stage with in time. > > > My Green Cheek did exactly the same thing, she/ended up a He, was hand > fed, > > > very tame and loveable, use to live on my shoulder, well not anymore, > that > > > is one bird from HELL let me tell you. It lives to attack or try to > when I > > > get near the cage to change food etc. Don’t know what happened, figured > it > > > was just maturity that changed the bird. The bird was well loved with > lots > > > of attention. Still have him, although at times I threaten to get rid of > > > him, I have been saying that for about 2 years now, Gizmo is still here > and > > > tolerated. Always hopeful that something will spark in that darn bird > and > > > will do the same thing, do a quick change back to sweet. Wishful > thinking > > > though. > > > — > > > Karen > > > Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. > > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 > > > http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html > > > > > Leroy (bcc) took a chunk out of my finger. > > > > Exactly like Dakota. Ued to be such a sweet bird til he met puberty. > Now > > > > he is a sex drived jealous piece of c%^p. All he does is swear at me > and > > > > bite me, ESPECIALLY when Sweet Pea is in the area (Yfandes’ mate). =( > > — > > Marco > > ~~~~~ > > -"Girls, we’ve come to face that age-old dilemma… Style Vs. Substance." > > Miss Vida Boheme > > Pet Birds > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62680 > > PSP Graphics Page > > www.geocities.com/marcosartgallery > — > Marco > ~~~~~ > -"Girls, we’ve come to face that age-old dilemma… Style Vs. Substance." > Miss Vida Boheme > Pet Birds > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62680 > PSP Graphics Page > www.geocities.com/marcosartgallery

Response:

Marco, Gizmo was hatched 2/2/91 so that makes him (I still want to call him her, so if I slip, don’t shoot me ok?LOL, ) 9 years old and has been nasty for at least 2 years, could be more, time goes by so fast. Once in a while I can get a scratch in on his head, but it’s quick and short. This bird is so bad I have to take him in to clip him, but he is sweet as pie after a clipping (just due to being scared and nothing else) In fact last time I did this and we got home, that bird would let me pet it, etc and had him out for about 2 hours, but no sooner that I had to leave, popped the bird in the cage and returned in about 15 minutes, back to be Mr. Ornery once again. It was too good to be true! — Karen Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey Karen, > How old is your green cheek? I ask because when our green cheek, Spanky, was > about 2, 2.5 yrs he too turned into one mean, biting machine. He was handraised > and we’ve had him since he was 3 months old. He was so sweet and cuddly then. > Then he turned into a monster, but, luckily, he’s calmed down. Right now he’s > about 5 and a half yrs old, he still gets cranky once in a while, but in a very > non aggresive way. He’ll play with us *if* and *when* he wants to. Yours might > get over this stage with in time. > My Green Cheek did exactly the same thing, she/ended up a He, was hand fed, > very tame and loveable, use to live on my shoulder, well not anymore, that > is one bird from HELL let me tell you. It lives to attack or try to when I > get near the cage to change food etc. Don’t know what happened, figured it > was just maturity that changed the bird. The bird was well loved with lots > of attention. Still have him, although at times I threaten to get rid of > him, I have been saying that for about 2 years now, Gizmo is still here and > tolerated. Always hopeful that something will spark in that darn bird and > will do the same thing, do a quick change back to sweet. Wishful thinking > though. > — > Karen > Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 > http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html > > > Leroy (bcc) took a chunk out of my finger. > > Exactly like Dakota. Ued to be such a sweet bird til he met puberty. Now > > he is a sex drived jealous piece of c%^p. All he does is swear at me and > > bite me, ESPECIALLY when Sweet Pea is in the area (Yfandes’ mate). =( > — > Marco > ~~~~~ > -"Girls, we’ve come to face that age-old dilemma… Style Vs. Substance." > Miss Vida Boheme > Pet Birds > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62680 > PSP Graphics Page > www.geocities.com/marcosartgallery

Response:

Karen, I’ve noticed that as time goes by, Spanky becomes a lot more independent. ‘Independent’ meaning that he doesn’t care for snuggling or extended petting session. He’s more than content just perching on my head and watch tv with me (his favorite!)… and once in a while he decides there’s a hair out of place and he must do away with it (ouch). He gets extra cranky sometimes and doesn’t want to come out of his cage. Other times he’s all for a good ‘rough-housing’ on the couch. It depends on his moods. These lil’ green cheeks have such personalities! But one thing is for sure, what they lack in size, they more than make up in guts. Spanky has been known to try to attack the other birds, regardless of size, shape, coloration or beak size. Luckily for Spanky, Hoppy (U2) is terrified of him and will crest up and run away in terror everytime Spanky puffs up. <g> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Marco, Gizmo was hatched 2/2/91 so that makes him (I still want to call him > her, so if I slip, don’t shoot me ok?LOL, ) 9 years old and has been nasty > for at least 2 years, could be more, time goes by so fast. Once in a while > I can get a scratch in on his head, but it’s quick and short. This bird is > so bad I have to take him in to clip him, but he is sweet as pie after a > clipping (just due to being scared and nothing else) In fact last time I did > this and we got home, that bird would let me pet it, etc and had him out for > about 2 hours, but no sooner that I had to leave, popped the bird in the > cage and returned in about 15 minutes, back to be Mr. Ornery once again. It > was too good to be true! > — > Karen > Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 > http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html > Hey Karen, > How old is your green cheek? I ask because when our green cheek, Spanky, > was > about 2, 2.5 yrs he too turned into one mean, biting machine. He was > handraised > and we’ve had him since he was 3 months old. He was so sweet and cuddly > then. > Then he turned into a monster, but, luckily, he’s calmed down. Right now > he’s > about 5 and a half yrs old, he still gets cranky once in a while, but in a > very > non aggresive way. He’ll play with us *if* and *when* he wants to. Yours > might > get over this stage with in time. > > My Green Cheek did exactly the same thing, she/ended up a He, was hand > fed, > > very tame and loveable, use to live on my shoulder, well not anymore, > that > > is one bird from HELL let me tell you. It lives to attack or try to > when I > > get near the cage to change food etc. Don’t know what happened, figured > it > > was just maturity that changed the bird. The bird was well loved with > lots > > of attention. Still have him, although at times I threaten to get rid of > > him, I have been saying that for about 2 years now, Gizmo is still here > and > > tolerated. Always hopeful that something will spark in that darn bird > and > > will do the same thing, do a quick change back to sweet. Wishful > thinking > > though. > > — > > Karen > > Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 > > http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html > > > > Leroy (bcc) took a chunk out of my finger. > > > Exactly like Dakota. Ued to be such a sweet bird til he met puberty. > Now > > > he is a sex drived jealous piece of c%^p. All he does is swear at me > and > > > bite me, ESPECIALLY when Sweet Pea is in the area (Yfandes’ mate). =( > — > Marco > ~~~~~ > -"Girls, we’ve come to face that age-old dilemma… Style Vs. Substance." > Miss Vida Boheme > Pet Birds > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62680 > PSP Graphics Page > www.geocities.com/marcosartgallery

– Marco ~~~~~ -"Girls, we’ve come to face that age-old dilemma… Style Vs. Substance." Miss Vida Boheme Pet Birds http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=62680 PSP Graphics Page www.geocities.com/marcosartgallery

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I don’t know what type of birds are being talked about here, but Henry, my Parakeet has managed to stay sweet his whole life and I know he must have reached sexual maturity by now, he is about 8 years old. My worst problem is he won’t leave my hands alone. Normally I would just put him back in the cage when he started, but last time every time he started to try to mate I just stuck him on my shoulder and for some reason, he finally stayed there. I’m hoping the new Parrotlet will stay as sweet as Henry has. Sharon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Leroy (bcc) took a chunk out of my finger. > Exactly like Dakota. Ued to be such a sweet bird til he met puberty. Now > he is a sex drived jealous piece of c%^p. All he does is swear at me and > bite me, ESPECIALLY when Sweet Pea is in the area (Yfandes’ mate). =(

Response:

Hey Karen, How old is your green cheek? I ask because when our green cheek, Spanky, was about 2, 2.5 yrs he too turned into one mean, biting machine. He was handraised and we’ve had him since he was 3 months old. He was so sweet and cuddly then. Then he turned into a monster, but, luckily, he’s calmed down. Right now he’s about 5 and a half yrs old, he still gets cranky once in a while, but in a very non aggresive way. He’ll play with us *if* and *when* he wants to. Yours might get over this stage with in time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My Green Cheek did exactly the same thing, she/ended up a He, was hand fed, > very tame and loveable, use to live on my shoulder, well not anymore, that > is one bird from HELL let me tell you. It lives to attack or try to when I > get near the cage to change food etc. Don’t know what happened, figured it > was just maturity that changed the bird. The bird was well loved with lots > of attention. Still have him, although at times I threaten to get rid of > him, I have been saying that for about 2 years now, Gizmo is still here and > tolerated. Always hopeful that something will spark in that darn bird and > will do the same thing, do a quick change back to sweet. Wishful thinking > though. > — > Karen > Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 > http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html > > Leroy (bcc) took a chunk out of my finger. > Exactly like Dakota. Ued to be such a sweet bird til he met puberty. Now > he is a sex drived jealous piece of c%^p. All he does is swear at me and > bite me, ESPECIALLY when Sweet Pea is in the area (Yfandes’ mate). =(

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> I caught Oscar (BFA) chewing his way through an electrical cord. > It wasn’t plugged in.

One day Coral’s humidifier stopped working, and I discovered that someone had chewed through the cord. It, too, had been unplugged, but I wondered if she was trying to turn it on, since she really liked it. Or maybe she was just being a parrot. I had hidden the cord and plugged it in behind some curtains, and it was several feet from her cage. But… > Leroy (bcc) took a chunk out of my finger.

Oy! I can relate. Coral lucked out, too, because my first impulse was to fling her across the room. Fortunately I did not because if she had clamped any harder she might have taken my thumb with her! — Kellie Final Portrait * A Novel by Kellie Sisson Snider Kass Arts Publicity <http://kassarts.bizland.com>

Response:

> Leroy (bcc) took a chunk out of my finger.

Exactly like Dakota. Ued to be such a sweet bird til he met puberty. Now he is a sex drived jealous piece of c%^p. All he does is swear at me and bite me, ESPECIALLY when Sweet Pea is in the area (Yfandes’ mate). =(

Response:

My Green Cheek did exactly the same thing, she/ended up a He, was hand fed, very tame and loveable, use to live on my shoulder, well not anymore, that is one bird from HELL let me tell you. It lives to attack or try to when I get near the cage to change food etc. Don’t know what happened, figured it was just maturity that changed the bird. The bird was well loved with lots of attention. Still have him, although at times I threaten to get rid of him, I have been saying that for about 2 years now, Gizmo is still here and tolerated. Always hopeful that something will spark in that darn bird and will do the same thing, do a quick change back to sweet. Wishful thinking though. — Karen Take a peek at my Baby Cockatiels and my other birds. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=580146 http://hometown.aol.com/kmo53153/bryce2.html

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My love birds are still in love. She started laying eggs on the bottom of the cage days after I removed the nest box, so now I’ll have to separate the pair. I caught Oscar (BFA) chewing his way through an electrical cord. It wasn’t plugged in. Leroy (bcc) took a chunk out of my finger. **Mick** My photo album can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=29982

Pet Birds Have Never Been This Fun!

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